S2 Ep 34 - A Prem Rugby Cat Amongst Prem Rugby Pigeons

The league table says one thing, but the rugby says something else: the Gallagher Premiership run-in is starting to feel like a scrap, not a procession. We start by pulling on the biggest off-pitch threads of the week, including talk of Welsh, Scottish and Irish clubs joining the PWR and what that could mean for professional women’s rugby, talent pathways and international standards. We also tackle the much spicier rumour of Ealing Trailfinders looking towards the URC, and why closed-shop leagues, European qualification and RFU player access make that idea far more complicated than it sounds.

From there we connect the money dots. With American investment circling English rugby and Exeter Chiefs progressing discussions with the Black Knight group, it’s hard not to wonder whether the sport is drifting towards a franchised, British and Irish league model. We keep it practical: what works, what breaks, and what would actually make sense for supporters, players and clubs.

Then it’s pure Premiership therapy. Gloucester finally string wins together, Leicester Tigers bully Northampton Saints in the derby, Saracens look ominous again, and Exeter Chiefs expose Bath’s one-speed plan with a performance that throws the title race back into chaos. We finish with teams of the week, quick-fire predictions for Round 16, and Rory’s final thought on Henry Pollock.

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Transcript

Hello, Rugby, And Life Admin

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Rux Moons and Overballs. That's right, it's the Fans Favourite Rugby Podcast, hosted by the fans favourite rugby podcast hosts, back with some more rugby conversation and rugby analysis and all things rugby. It's me, Dave, joined as ever by Rory. Rory say hello to the listener. Hello. Hello, listeners. Hello, David. Hello, are you? Hello, very well, thank you. Very well. I'll start thinking we probably should come up with a new cadence for the introduction to these episodes. We don't want to be predictable, Rory. We're not a predictable pod. We like to like to roll the punches. We need to maybe maybe next week we'll throw something new out there. Maybe you know, maybe I'll change up my words or something. Something exciting like that. Oh, and that's something that's a pause you listener. Make sure you tune in next week. Bump our numbers next week, I can tell you now for free. But yeah, I'm very well, thank you, Rory. Um, any highlights for me to draw on? Not nothing extra special, you just the continued battles of you know being a father to a baby who, you know, all things come with having a baby. That's a main focus, and at the same time trying to get a house ready to sell. So lots of really boring, busy stuff, and not very exciting at all to really go through. Uh, how about yourself, Rory? I'm I'm guessing first rugby-less weekend for yourself for a while.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, yeah, no game this weekend, and obviously no game forthcoming until next season. Uh a little lost with what to do by weekends, David. I um obviously you have to do boyfriend duties and all those kind of things, and really my weekends have freed up that, so that's all I can really plan to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

So you've now you've now lost your excuse of getting out of those boyfriend duties that you once, I'm sure, really reluctantly um avoided in the past.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I thoroughly enjoy my boyfriend duties, uh, and I have no qualms with um spending my Saturdays doing activities and being outside when there's games on the telly that I could be watching. Um I'm towing the parting line on that one.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Correct answer, Rory. Uh, that is definitely always the right answer to that scenario. Uh but you know, next season's gonna come thick and fast, Rory. So make sure to, you know, make the most of your free time. Make the most of us enough.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

I mean, no, you're right. I've got I've got uh lots of time to enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Absolutely, absolutely.

Why We’re Getting Into News

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Well, well, this week, Rory, we've got a lot of news to cover in the rugby world. We got uh five games in the Gallagher Premd colour, and we've got another round coming thick and fast. So rather than us dilly-dallying around the delicate subject of balancing being an overly you know invested rugby fan with you know the duties of carrying a relationship or being a parent, let's talk about rugby. Let's do it. We've got this podcast is about rugby, it's not about the other stuff. Um

PWR Expansion And Ealing URC Talk

SPEAKER_01 3:01

so news wise, I think the first thing I want to start off with, and it it's a it's a two-pronged attack for you, Rory. It is the rumour slash kind of confirmed noising coming out of various unions, uh being Welsh Rugby Union, the Irish Rugby Union, and the Scottish Rugby Union, sounding out possibilities of having a club to partake in PWR, which is the domestic league for women's rugby in England. Second prong to this is also the noise of Ealing Trailfinders, the team that keeps going undefeated and champ rugby, uh, and kind of the the naysayers around promotion and the relegation arguing in many cases quite rightly that they should have been a Prem Club already, uh, and we've covered reasons why. But there's talk of them trying to get into the URC. Yeah. So, Rory, what do you make of these developments? Because it could have some significant ramifications, implications for the future of uh rugby and our great nation.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah, yeah. I look so I think if you separate them out from the women's rugby perspective, I think it's a really good move. Um for the purposes of improving the prospects of the international women's teams in Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, having a pro team or two pro teams, whatever it ends up being, uh, in each of those nations that uh women can aspire to play for, uh, or current internationals in the PWR can go and play for, or women playing in the Celtic Challenge can move up to and play into. Offers them significant opportunities and will vastly improve the prospects of the international nation. It'll all feed up and improve the entire level of British women's, British and Irish women's rugby, which is massively important, and I think this is a good first step, and it will improve the PWR. There are obviously going to be logistical challenges, they're gonna be financial challenges, but on the face of it, I think really, really good both. Ealing into the URC, this feels more cynical, spiteful. Um, I think it's Ealing trying to engineer an opportunity to play at the top level, which I understand why they want to. I do understand why they why they're um after that opportunity. I think the URC for the URC, it's a more cynical move to try and breach into the English rugby market, which obviously the URC doesn't really have a handle on, apart from expat fans of URC clubs. Um, Elin are financially incredibly well backed, but you know, if I if I talk to my old man who's been playing in and around rugby in the southeast for a very long time, once upon a time Ealin were a park rugby team. You know, they're just this is this is a club that's had a lot of money pumped into it, and it's got some very impressive facilities around it in terms of uh obviously Lick's Brian University, they've got uh wider athletics of um uh facilities and other sporting facilities that they um commercialise, but you know, Ealing itself does it does not possess an enormous fan base that is likely to fill out uh a stadium week on week. No. Um, you know, they the one of the obviously the main reason they can't get to the Premier is they don't have uh a 10,000 seat stadium or steps towards getting one. So maybe they could pull together a team that could compete in the URC, but is there a wider value in it? I don't know.

British And Irish League Possibilities

SPEAKER_00 6:24

What I do think is interesting with these both these moves combined is this is all looking a lot like all the unions across the UK and Ireland starting to coordinate their clubs or looking to coordinate their clubs, pushing for clubs, into what looks a lot more like British and Irish leagues, which is something that's been mooted for some time and could end up being the way forward for for all those all the teams involved. It's not in the current trajectory, the current plans for any of them, but is officially uh might end up being the best ultimate situation all round.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Well, if you if you look at it on the face of it, um and you were to take into consideration the Prem is now a closed shop, it is what it is. URC is a closed shop, yeah. So something in the past that may have got in the way of a British and Irish league is like God forbid Leinster was to ever be relegated, for example. That that wouldn't be tolerable from kind of an IRFU perspective. And we know the noise coming out of the Prem is they aspire to have 20 teams in the Prem. It could could that well be that they're looking at inviting over the Irish provinces, the Welsh regions, the Scottish regions. That would bring us up to that 20 number quite quickly. And they would it would appeal to them the fact that the Prem no longer has relegation. It's now this franchise model. There's a bit more certainty around it, and it may be part of the reason why this noise is starting to happen, because the Prem's now no longer the shut door. On the E-ling Trailfinders thing, I still think if we're not going down that route, I serve great reservations about the practicalities of that. So imagine E-lean Trailfinders go to the URC and then they finish at a Champions Cup position. That means an Engl they you we could end up with nine English clubs in the Champions Club in the Champions Cup, but I can't see other nations liking that. And I don't see the Prem signing up saying, Oh, okay, if E-ling finish third in the URC, that means we'll have one less club just because another English club's qualified for another route. So there's there's technicalities that I think would be huge stumbling blocks to agreeing to Ealing playing in a competition that is sanctioned outside of England. Uh it's the same reason London Irish. I don't see that happening either.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah. It also Ealing's still set under the auspices of the RFU.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Now, are the RFU going to sanction having to manage a relationship with another new with an a whole entire league for the purposes of having access to players at Ealing? Because you know, presumably Ealing would have a number of English qualified players in them even if they were in the URC, and the RFU would presumably want the opportunity to select them for the national team, but they wouldn't have the same agreement they have with home clubs to access to them. So what would it it would mat it it would madden an already overcomplicated structure?

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Yeah, but on the flip side, if then the RFU are seeing to being open-minded and then inviting W, SRU, IRFU clubs into the PWR, on one hand can you be taking from these unions, and then on the other hand being like, actually, though, we'll we'll happily have you play in our competitions, but no, you can't have anyone from our you can't have anyone from England playing in yours, sorry. Uh it's there there is a risk that doing one paves the way for the other, but maybe that is deliberate, like you say, going in the direction of the British and Irish League. Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

You know, it could happen.

American Money And Club Takeovers

SPEAKER_00 9:51

We know that there's a lot of US money and a lot of US interest being poured into English rugby in particular at the moment. Yeah, uh, who have been uh who are the first champ club to uh to fall to the um American colonizers. Um exter of ratified the deal with uh Black Knight group to to look at taking over.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

So on on that on that slightly, I I did read in that that it did seem like slightly the the wording from Tony Rowe was to kind of dampen a little bit the ambition because he kind of suggested that oh, there isn't actually any offer on paper saying here's my money, it was more of a register of interest they're voting on to proceed with the like negotiations. So it kind of feels like hopefully it does still materialise, but the way I read it is either oh there's that there isn't actually money on the table yet, it's just an extra interest.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, so so they've ratified extra chief members have ratified the principle of Black Knight Group being able to buy extra chief. Black Knight Group have expressed a statement of intent to purchase it, but they haven't officially begun the process of doing it. I think you know uh in my sort of limited knowledge of these mechanisms, um, this is all sort of semantics, really, as much as anything. It's it means Black Knight Group at the moment aren't legally bound to proceed with the purchase of Next to Chiefs despite getting the get the get-go from the Chiefs members to do so. Yeah. Um but to all intents and purposes, that is still the direction of travel.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I just I wonder because I think a lot of people are expecting that post that that EGM that'll be like, and hello, these are our new owners. It's actually no, hello, you're now allowing us to talk to these people who are interested in buying organisation. So that I think that's the distinction we didn't quite have at that point before we knew about this. I'd also say because I know Rob Baxter's said that he is his ability to recruit next season is kind of hinged on this a little bit. I don't whether there'll be enough time from when I think this deal could be completed to him being able to recruit maybe who he wants to for next season. Probably won't be, because that window's probably already passed seeing all the business that's happened already this year. Um but it's interesting to know that's what they're talking about. And on the Cornish Pirates one, it's really interesting that the there is very little information out there about the organization that are purchasing them. The only thing I can figure out is that they're being bought by someone based in Pittsburgh, and obviously Pittsburgh Pirates are a thing, Cornish Pirates are a thing, maybe there's a big wishful thinking brand wise, which could be potentially really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Um yeah, I I think I think with the Cornish one, I take this as um it's sort of like the difference between if you're over this one, it's talking about the difference between private equity and venture capital, in that promo more like private equity opportunities in the sense of these are you're more certain, you're not not guaranteed, but you're more certain to see a uh a return on the investment eventually. Being the first to secure the ownership of a champ side is more like venture capital in the sense of for a relatively small sum of money, which um in what has been released about these people, this is not a huge sum of money in the grand scheme of things that they're um uh they they're able to invest in. They can put the wheels in motion to potentially put Cornish pirates on a course to become part of whatever the future prem looks like without a huge outlay and with minimal risk.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

It's more of a speculate to accumulate type of price. It's a little bit of that, a little bit of that, but it you know, it does seem like they are the first dominant. Bedford Blues obviously being nicely located to the newest universal studios being built in the area, and whether that could draw a significant American market to the Bedford Blues area, perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Um quite possibly. I mean, they were formerly owned by um uh Frank Warren, I think it was, in the 90s, when they had the likes of Martina Fire playing there, so they're not um uh unused to uh new uh new and different ownerships at Bedford, although they didn't eventually work out in the way that uh they hoped. Um I think if you tie a lot of these threads together, particularly with the American interest and maybe the steps towards a British and Irish league, which is I I would suspect the overall ambitions of these groups coming into the Prem are beyond just the English rugby market. I would suspect they're more interested in the UK and Irish rugby markets on the whole.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

I very much look forward to tuning in to Rux Malls Overball Series 22 and seeing what sort of rugby we're talking about at that stage. Because I have a feeling it's gonna be very different to what we're talking about today.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Let's take what they'll that we know they're taking inspiration from. Obviously, they're taking a lot of inspiration from American franchises, particularly the NFL. The NFL has 32 teams across uh two conferences across which are each split into four divisions.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Now, you're telling me you could not have a sustainable ecosystem of 32 rugby teams across the UK and Ireland?

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Not immediately.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Not immediately, but not never.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

No, well, if rugby there is always this there is always a slight slight distinction of you have your southwest teams, you have your teams in the north, you have your teams in the east midlands, you have your London teams. Um that's always they sound like divisions. Exactly. And then and then obviously Ireland, Wales, Scotland, they could all have their own divisions.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Um you've got your London division, you've got you know, let's say you've got Wasps back in the southeast, yeah, London Irish, yeah, Quins, and Saracens, I'm still not counting Ealing, just because decided not to. You might have your Midlands Conference of East Midlands conference of something like Leicester, Northampton, Nottingham, Worcester, uh, Bedford, or maybe Worcester. Worcester might be, or maybe there's a West Midlands conference with Birmingham Mosley, Coventry, Worcester, Gloucester, yeah, and then South West, Exter, Cornish Pirates, Bath, Bristol. Yeah. It's on paper, it all kind of makes sense, doesn't it? I'm not saying it's definitely the way they should go, but I think there's a conversation to be had.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

And once again, we are free to be consultants. Our fee is very reasonable. We are more than happy to visionaries, and we will deliver. Uh, but it's a very interesting time, and obviously all this stuff is quite far in the future, so we'll never be held accountable for these views. Um, but we like to hypothesise. Back firmly on terra firma of actually talking about news,

Wales Call-Up And Kane James

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Rory. I think another thing worth talking about. Uh the Wales summer series squad was announced, and of our particular interest to us was a certain name that jumped out was a certain young Kane James, who seems to have escaped the clutches of English uh national call-ups. Is this one that's going to come back and fight us?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, immensely talented back rower, physically very gifted, very impressive for England 20s over the last couple of seasons. Um, a real standout. Probably a bit of push-pull in the sense of realising this is an incredibly competitive position in in England, and you are up against the likes of this and Al Gaeb, Henry Pollock. Well, I'll go.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

I was about to say that I feel like he suffered from being in the same same age group as Henry Pollock, because I think if Henry Pollock wasn't around, Kane James would have been the exciting player coming through that age group.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Quite possibly, and the bits that we've seen him for Exeter Chiefs, he's he's starting to look like he's really stepping up to the plane at that at that level. Um, but he was you know originally um in Wales. Obviously, he's in the England 20s because he was based in Exeter now. Um he's made the decision to go back there, unlike Capatu Pelotu, would be the other we assume. We assume TBC, but I would assume if he was gonna well I've seen the interviews with him where he said that he's his ambition is England and he's not in the Welsh squad, so let's assume still pursuing that um that direction. Um yeah, it's interesting. I I no doubt that he um is someone who has a pole to play for Wales and is a proud Welshman and is very keen to um to play for his nation. There may also have been that calculation of you know where it's a competitive market. Where where am I where am I gonna get the greatest opportunities at the international level? It might be in Wales more so than in England. Um I'm sure he backs himself to be the best of the best, but you know, um there's a there's always lots of different facets to these decisions, but I think it's a good get for Wales. Uh I think it's a really exciting young talent with a lot of potential. And let's be frank, the Welsh national team could do with any bit of extra talent it can find at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

They could, although it's probably in the one position that they're pretty well stocked in as well. If you if you you know they got a couple of decent players at in in his position, if we're being honest. But yeah, um hey, I I don't begrudge him. I d I just I fear that he's uh another one that might come back to bite us. Uh but that's the nature of the beast, unfortunately. Uh our two nations are very closely linked, and we're gonna have players that qualify for both. Uh that's how we end up with Manny Ferriboso, that's how they end up with George North. That's how we end up with countless other examples. Uh and Kane James is just another one of those where he's, for whatever reason, quite rightly, followed his original nation, let's say. Uh so good luck to him. It's just it makes me wonder when we'll next see the next England pick that comes from Wales. Because I think the last one I can think of was Underhill that we clawed back from Cardiff, I think, at one point.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Well, yeah, so Underhill was in he but he was in the Gloucester Academy and then went to Cardiff Met, and then then ended up playing for Osprace for a short while. Um Don Brown, another one who's at Cardiff Met, Luke Northmore was at Cardiff Met, but they were there to play rugby for the university. So don't think any of those could have played for Wales unless they stayed long enough to get residency.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Okay, okay. Well, I mean it does always get wet my appetite though, because it means the other nation squads are going to be announced soon. And we there's nothing we love more than hypothesising about England squads. As you would have known if you listened to last week's episode, where we gave Steve Borthwick a hand in picking that squad for him, should he wish to use that advice. That's up to him. Uh other news wise, I think I think we touched

Brian Moore Signs Off

SPEAKER_01 20:26

on everything.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Were we any other news that you want to well uh I think a tip of uh a tip of the hat to um a man retiring from the commentary box? Absolutely um the one of the voices of rugby from well from my childhood up to up to now, really, Brian Moore. Yeah, um, who is uh is hanging up the microphone. Um started commentator alongside the late great Bill McLaren, um maybe his best um partnership with the other uh unfortunately late and great Eddie Butler. Yeah. Um a man whose voice is sort of almost synonymous with Six Nations commentary. Um having been with the BBC covering that. And covering women's rugby as well, one of the um very early supporters of uh early high-profile supporters from the men's game to women's rugby. Um I think he first got involved in '91 or '93, you know, very early on to um support uh support the women's game. Um commentator I've I thoroughly enjoy. I mean, him screaming into the microphone when Toby Flood uh kicked another ball away against Italy is uh a highlight of mine, um expressing the frustration of every England fan in that particular era of English rugby where we were so dreary.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Yeah, the um grey old days, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Um but yeah, look, I you know a worthy, a worthy nod, uh worthy tip of the worthy nod.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

You know, I think he's he's one of he's one of the great commentators, obviously what was one of the great players, um, you know, a great thing. Of the game, an entertaining thinker of the game, you know, someone I'll miss listening to when it comes to uh next year's Six Nations.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yeah, yeah, it'd be interesting to see um yeah, I think it'll be noticeable next year when we become Six Nations because I think people will just be used to hearing his voice. He's like one of those commentators that you just you you don't realise until they're gone that oh where's Brian Moore gone? Uh but yeah, absolutely a good author for the hat to uh Brian Moore, who's uh hanging up with the microphone and hopefully can enjoy his rugby in whatever way he wishes to now. Uh and once again, we are available for Six Nations commentary if he wishes to employ us. Um we we may not be as competent as Brian Moore, but we can certainly shout at about things going really badly if we go with that, I think. Yeah, I think so. I think so at that. But now, Rory, we need to dig in to Premier.

Gloucester Finally Back It Up

SPEAKER_01 22:52

We need to dig in to round 15, I believe that took place last weekend. And I think it's a a rare, rare treat, Rory, that we get to start on a Friday night game that involves your beloved Gloucester. And the first time in a long time, back-to-back wins, Rory. Go just tell the listener uh your thoughts on this game. Gloucester versus Sale. I'm sure you're absolutely buzzing to be talking about this with me because this is a rare treat for this season.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yeah, this is well, literally, it's the first time we've backed up a win in the league, and I'm utterly delighted by it. Um, a really positive performance uh from the team in this one. Um, lots of endeavour, lots of positive play, lots of green shoots on what the boys are trying to do on the field. Very obviously still a bit ring-rusty when it comes to this particular game plan. Lots of mistakes, lots of drop balls, um, really contrived to lose the game that they never should have lost because they were we were if you take out the first 10 minutes um of this game, Gloucester were on top the entire time, and Sale never really put any pressure um on us at all. Uh well after so Longstaff scores about seven or eight minutes in. Really uh it's a nice try, actually. Is it effectively had the ball from kickoff until this try? And the defence from Gloucester was really good, really physical, puts under a lot of pressure. They didn't really get any change out of it. Um, but it was the first time they found an edge. Um Ben Loder bites in on I think Ford as they came round the corner. Uh, just found an edge for uh Roebuck to break up the right-hand channel, uh, steps inside in Longstaff, very nice run round the back of him onto the outside on the right, takes the ball and goes into the corner. It's a good try. Um, but from then on, Gloucester sort of had the ball for the rest of the game, to be honest, uh, and were well on top. But they weren't, I mean, what they are is extremely wasteful at the moment still. Yeah, so they're playing good rugby for the first time this season in the last two weeks. They're genuinely playing attack attractive, exciting rugby, but with uh basically complete inability to finish any opportunities. Um, so uh from then on, so you had uh lots of balls to the floor. Alamano knocks the ball over on literally on the try-line. Umfo got uh held up over the try-line at this point, you know, and this is 20 minutes in, and Gloss have just been all over for the next 10 minutes. They go on the attack again, and Seb Blake spills a not perfect pass to him, but probably should have taken it. He spills spills the ball, a flatty picks it up and runs it in from 50 odd meters. And so 25 minutes in, having been well on top for probably two-thirds of that, Gloster now find themselves 12-0 down. And I'm watching it going, How on earth are we losing this? We are we are we're battering them, yeah. Um but they managed to sort of pick it up. I mean, so I have one other opportunity where they break down the left, and uh Will Joseph puts in a really good tackle, and George Barton works really hard to get the turnover right down in the corner. Tomos gets does maybe the best 50-22 other team. Fox kicking over his shoulder from uh just beyond the halfway line into the perfect bit of grass goes. Lovely, wasn't it? Couldn't get closer to the corner. I mean, he's he's good at getting 50-22s, Tomos. This was his best one, yeah. It was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Uh and Gloucester managed to get held up over the line again. Um, but then just before half time, seven minutes in, uh, we win the penalty um from uh scrum about 15, get a scrum about 15 metres out, and pass to Ben Loder, which we should have just done from the start because he powers through Sam Dugdale, Rakita Marcy White, um and whoever the fullback was at this point, his name just escapes me. Joker um and just barrels over the line, just really, really powerful. I mean, Ben Loder's the last couple of weeks is playing really well. Um, you can see the how motivated he is at the moment having had a really stuttering season with injury.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

It does make you wonder how what he could have done if he had a full season. Um because every every time I've watched him, certainly in the last two games, he's been very, very impressive.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yeah, he's he's a different level of quality um to what we've had out wide by and large. Um he's sort of like folly thoroughly, but with a much more well-rounded game. Um, you know, it it's you know, he's he was a real and he was a difference maker in this. You know, he got turnovers, he won high balls, you know. By and large, his defence was very good, say for the first try where he bit in. Um, yeah, he's the last couple of weeks, he's really, really hit the ground running. Um, Charlie Atkinson nearly goes over at half time, and at half time I'm just thinking, I don't know how we're losing this. 7-12 down at halftime. I don't know how we're losing this. We have been we are genuinely battering them. Um, so you know, some players who've really flattered the seed this season, like Ben Loder, I like Venter by in like by by some distance his best game of the season. Um, yeah, you know, up to now he's been he started okay, but he kind of disappeared. I don't know if maybe he might have been one of the ones on the injury list, but yeah, he was he was on the injury list, but it was it was almost starting to look like he wasn't quite which you shouldn't really think of a South African flanker who was throw who was doing well in in South Africa, but he almost looked a bit lightweight for the league, he just wasn't having an impact. He is he is small by back row standards, to be fair. He is small, he is small. Um, but in this game he was really powerful, he carried really well, hit the breakdown really hard. Um unfortunately, we lost Tomos just after her at halftime, looking like either a collarbone or an ACJ. Hopefully, it's not the end of his season. No uh but he looked a painful one. Um at scrum time, yeah. That was that was school.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

That was uh what's the what's the word?

SPEAKER_00 29:08

It was child's play, that was at the time. So our scrum is starting to look really, really strong. Um Val and Afo.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

It was against the sale front row, which all of which were under 21. So a little bit of staff uh hooker who's been playing at Prem level for a few weeks now. So very well well done, Gloucester front row and scrum. But it wasn't sales main starting scrum, just just no I I understand, I understand, but Afo's about the same age as their props.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Well, yeah, Afo's the same age group as a poker for Joe, isn't it? Yeah, so um, yeah, you're right, but you also remember that we battered the extra scrum last week as well, and they aren't kids. No, we'll talk about extra soon. Um yeah, um, so you know, uh and you can only play what's play what's in front of you. Yeah, and they brought on Ona Sanya and Jimmy Harper, who've got a bit more experience, and they they went backwards as well. So point the point being though, that the set the Gloucester set piece, all of a sudden, Scrum and Line Out are both now looking very, very tight and powerful. Our line-out mall's looking a lot better, so suddenly that the Gloucester pack is looking a lot more formidable than it did three or four weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

For me, it was once again where I just I saw a clip where it just showed Arthur Clark stood amongst all the Gloucester players, and you realised how huge Arthur Clark is. And I think massive. I think having him back is both is both massive physically as a presence, but massive for the team. So I think the work he does in things like your line out more and just your set piece in general. I'm I'm I think having him back fit and firing is probably a big part of why things are starting to turn around as well. Because he had a great game as well. He was really good.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

He's so good in the loose as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

I really, really great Arthur Clark.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Like, yeah, he's got really good hands, he's surprisingly mobile and almost agile. I mean, he's not quite agile because he's six foot nine and probably 130 kilos or something, but yeah, he's sort of surprisingly agile. Um, and you know, obviously with Alamano uh next to him, who's slightly slightly less surprisingly agile. Less surprisingly agile. He's but he's you know, Alemano's a very, very solid second round. I mean, if you if you look at the players we've got coming through, Danny Eyet, six foot eight, six foot nine, similar sort of build to Arthur Clark, John O'Baldin, six foot ten, coming through. You know, we've got some big, big lumps at luck developing there, and then we've got Joe Joyce and John Klein coming in. Yeah, suddenly that stable looks very healthy. Um, and Freddie Thomas as well, who I thought had a really good game at six. Yeah. Um another one we lost to Wales. Yeah, yeah. Um, although I think he was always Welsh. I think he just came through the Hartbury College through. Um, but there's we should uh pivot slightly to one of the backs, Charlie Atkinson.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

He he's I think he's I think the decision in dropping Ross Byrne and putting Charlie Atkinson in that 10-shirt has what's changed Gloucester's fortunes around most of all, because it is night and day.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Yeah, I mean I I saw an interview with Skippinson where he where he addressed this, and you know, he was he wasn't he didn't throw Ross Byrne under the bus, but the reading between the lines, you know, you could you could see that it was basically, yeah, we we dropped Ross and brought in Charlie, and everything sort of got a lot better. Um and he was phenomenal. I mean, Skibs described it as Jalibert-esque. That might be slightly overregging the pudding, but stylistically, there's something to be said for it. He beat 13 defenders.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

We said that last week. You don't often beat 13 defenders, which is what Ben Loder did.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

No, he's gone and done it. He genuinely was brilliant. He was brilliant last week. And actually, he's probably been, by and large, our best, most consistent player throughout the season because he was obviously at fullback towards the start season. He was often our best player at fullback. Yeah. Um, scores the first try, another big scrum. George Barton, another one who had a very good game, nearly went over with Ben Loder, then spun it wide, and it's a nice cut angle uh to get under the sticks. Um Arthur Clark denied a phenomenal try by, admittedly, very obvious forward pass, but he runs it in from 40 metres, and he's just like, just give it, just give it. It's such a nice try. Um, but unfortunately, Walterham did throw the ball forward, so it's probably fair enough. Um, and at this point, Sale had just fallen apart, the the scrum was gone, the line out completely collapsed. Um, and then so we're 14-12 up, and uh there's a mistake in the backfield, a ball gets thrown down. I think Keaton Ingfield plays it off Jimmy Harper or thinking he was offside when he wasn't, and he gets hacked through for uh and goes ends up with a goal line dropout, which falls to George Ford, 55 metres out on the angle, yeah, and he just slots the drop goal, yeah, or 70 73rd minute, something like that. Yeah, very George Ford. Very George Ford, and you know he's got he's got it in his locker, and as soon as he got the ball, you look at it going, no, he's he's he's gonna slot this, and he does, and he does, because that's what George Ford does. He's you know, in a poor sales side where he's it to be honest, he's not been brilliant in this game, by and large, still capable of pulling out moments like that where it's just I don't think there's another fly half in the world that you could hang your hat on and say he would do that anywhere near as consistently as George Ford.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

No other fly half is doing that.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

There's I there's not another one with the the ability to just tick the scoreboard over.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

No, most other fly halves would would be running that back or sending it as a or to be fair, George Ford does it a lot as well, but putting the old spiral bum up. Um but Ford also his drop goal and his eye for that yeah, world class.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah. So at this point, obviously, I'm my head's gone. I'm I'm screaming at the telly. How are we how are we effing losing this? We've been effing battering him the whole bloody game. Can't believe it, can't believe that we're actually not going to win this game. Um up steps. Well, there's a few players who are worth worth mentioning. George Barton just about secures a very tough high ball off George Ford. Um completely illegally cleared out, but fine, the referee cleared it, so it's fine. Uh Seb Atkinson makes the half break. He had a very powerful game, so he didn't have spectacular moments of breaks and offloads and things, but very, very powerful carrying game up against one of the other players with ambitions of playing 12 for England. Uh, I thought Seb Atkinson was comfortably um on top in that in the 12 battle. Yeah. Um makes the half break, offloads to Max Llewellyn, who makes 60 metres up the pitch, and it's a really good break. You know, Max Dwellin doesn't look fast, but he's got a lot more toe than you'd think. Gets hauled down and then upsets Charlie Atkinson again, cuts a great line and runs it under the sticks to win it on about 77-78 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Um, it's just an absolute up and down evening for old big roar.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

It's the roller coaster that only comes with support in the cherry and whites, my friend. It's uh I mean admittedly it's a roller coaster with a lot more downs than it is ups, so um yeah, uh but um more of a log flume. Yeah, it's yes, yeah, it is it's often a log flume. But on this occasion, no, uh very pleased to get the win. I thought I was really pleased with the performance, loads to improve, loads to work on. But you can see kind of if this is the direction of travel, and admittedly it's it's only been a couple of weeks um and it's off the back of a bad season and some very, very bad performances. But the last two weeks, at the very least, gives me some optimism about the direction we're taking at the moment. So finally um I'm delighted.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Some green shoots in Gloucester. We've been waiting, we've been waiting all season, they're finally here, Auri.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

No, absolutely, absolutely. Um, and from a sale perspective, another really, really disappointing performance. Um, yeah, and some players who, you know, uh Tom Roebuck, really poor, um, poor defensively against Ben Loder. Um, you know, the first try aside, absent for the rest of the game, um, hauled off on an hour. Uh Marzy White, not really any impact there. George Ford, not very not particularly good.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

I think that they were just they were second best in each department, really.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Yeah, uh ultimately uh, you know, that that is the long and short of it. They were they were completely um outmatched in this game, um, which is it's worrying signs of a sale because even when they've been poor in the past, you can always hang your hat on the fight and the great and the determination at the moment, they just got spent.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah, uh that's how I see it as well. They just do not look like they've I think the season end can't come soon enough for them. And yeah, um, unfortunately, they've still got a few more games to play. Um yeah, they have got tough games. So 2115, was it to Gloucester in the end? 2115, yes. So good four points for them. Next game.

Tigers Bully Saints In The Derby

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Just skip over the next game here, Rory.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

No, I think we should really dig into this one in minute detail, actually, David. I want to hear everything you've got to say about this one. Uh, this is the East Midlands derby, ladies and gentlemen. Um, our beloved David Morgan Jones, obviously a passionate fan of the high-flying Northampton Saints. Uh, very confident in their uh ability to go and uh cause uh cause some mayhem to their great rivals Leicester Tigers.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Um I think he thought they had them outmatched in almost every department. And uh No, David, I think you should you should give us the story of how this one panned out.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Well, for me, this game was a culmination and a hopefully decisive point on what has been a really rocky set of games since the Six Nations, where the Northampton Saints have not been playing well, but have still been getting wins. And I think what we saw in this game was that team not playing well and really not getting a win. And unfortunately it was against the local rivals, Leicester Tigers, who I will say before I get into anything were magnificent, and they deserve every bit of credit they should get from this game. But I will also add to that that Northampton were the opposite of magnificent and really, really were disappointing. Um there's a number of elements that uh hugely concerning, and I'm sure they will be hugely concerning to the coaching team. Uh first and foremost, the set piece. Um scrum time and line out, the Saints pack fell apart. And I know I've seen Saints fans saying it's because Tom Lockett uh pulled out last minute, but Chunyamunga came in, and if anything, Chunya Munga is a better line out operator than Tom Lockett is. Um perhaps has an impact to scrum time, but if I'm honest, I th I I was a little bit nervous at Scrum Time going into that game, even with Lockett in the second row. Um yes, the the line out in general, I think we were it I think we're at like 58% success rate of the line out. It was an absolute travesty. Uh but outside of that, I think it probably would be very I think the observation I made if you were to contrast how Northampton played and how Leicester played, Northampton seemed to be really lacking a bit of bite and a bit of grit. It all felt a bit passive, and we really struggled to impose ourselves in this game, and maybe it is the the Welford Road crowd, but if you were to compare the tackles that Northampton were putting in and the carries Northampton were putting in to the Leicester counterparts where every tackle seemed to have to be packed with bite and every run was vicious and everything was with a bit more oomph behind it, it was absolute night and day. And i it made me start thinking like Northampton at the moment really missing Tom Pearson, really missing Alex Coles, and really missing Curtis Langdon. Because I think those are the sorts of players we return to when we need to get a bit down and dirty. And unfortunately, we were not able to match the physicality Leicester brought in the game brought in the day. And that's ultimately where the Saints game fell down because we just were not able to live with them, and Leicester just didn't give Northampton any room to breathe, any room to execute anything of any sort. Um uh and just on that, Northampton is still continuing this pretty poor conversion rate of executing some of the backs moves because it's still quite sloppy, ball hitting the floor when it shouldn't. So, yeah, quite a frustrating and disappointing performance from Northampton Saints' perspective. Uh I think the only couple of players that might come out with a any sort of credit, maybe Keminy um eclipses, but you got a yellow card. Freeman got two nice tries, but you know, it's all well and good getting two tries when you're getting beat on 40 odd points by your rivals. But uh this game is all about how just brilliant Leicester were, really. I I I don't think there's anything more to it than Leicester were and I've gotta say it, of all the teams, and spoiler alert on the later on game, I think Leicester are the team to beat now.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

They they bullied you. They bullied you from from minute one, um epitomised by the frankly magnificent George Martin um finally returning to to the regular lineup, and every I'd all I'd forgotten, I think, because I haven't seen him play for well over a year, what a physical animal he is, both sides of the you can see there was a few carries where it was just like the player's like, oh, they've just ran into a brick wall. Oh no, it's oh no, it's George Martin. Yeah, immovable, immovable in defence, and his carrying with the ball. Uh obviously he scores the try um early on, really, really nicely set up by uh by Chesham. Um but he carried a lot of ball in this game and he got go forward every single time. Um he was he was just there there aren't really words. I think the only player I can think of, the only types of players I can think of that that you could compare that performance to Courtney Laws at his best, Bach's Bota, you know, these types of like physical enforcers, physical enforcers that are and physic and physical enforcers in a very different sense to the likes of Van Der Mesht, um who was anonymous really in this. Yeah, yeah, he was completely neutralised. Um but yeah, physical enforcers in in everything they do, not just getting going forward with the ball, obviously that was part of it. Physical in the tackle, physical in the breakdown, physical at the mall.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

It reminds me a little bit of uh like Prime Schulkberger, like it's just pure muscle bulk. Everything you do is with just power at the heart of it. And I know Schulkberger's not a lock, but the way George Martin plays, it reminded me a bit of Prime Schulk. Burger.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

It do you know what it just reminded me of how good he was against South Africa in the last World Cup. And I suddenly started thinking if he's fit again and you've got a Toge and him in the in the row and a Chesm at six, all of a sudden I'm less worried about how we match up physically to the South Africans. Um Chesham again, phenomenal. He's been brilliant all season. He's looking more and more like an England captain in waiting. Yeah, yeah. His leadership's fantastic, isn't it? Um, Joe Hayes. I loved Joe Hayes in this game. He from minute one, he was out to hurt people. Um, he he was putting in some hits, he was niggly. He obviously it spilled over a bit with Craig Wright, um, who was a bit unfortunate to get binned alongside him, to be honest. Yeah, well, he can't really ref didn't have a choice, really, did he? No, at that point you have to send them both off. Joe Joe was on it all day in this one, um, and he was loving, you could just tell he was absolutely loving getting under people's skins, and you know, he he put some hits in really early on in defence that just sort of set the tone for what he was about the whole day. Um, you know, the Rafela and Lieberberg are a really good duo on the flanks, very classical duo on the flanks. I thought Moro was excellent at eight. Again, just he's there's something about Argentinian eights in that mold, the way they get go forward. You know, you think of the likes of uh am I thinking of Leghizen one?

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah, uh Facundoisa.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Facundoisa. They just have this ability to get go forward, even if they don't necessarily look physically bigger than their opposite number, they just have this kind of determination to make ground. Um, I think it was I thought it was excellent. Nicky Smith, excellent again, combative, yeah, great, got a couple of really good turnovers. The whole Tigers pack, I mean, man for man, were streets ahead of everyone in this in the Saints pack. They're you know, to a man, they were better than their opposite man, and probably every other man in the Saints pack. And that is where the game was won or lost. And couldn't disagree, and the physical disparity highlighted one of Saints' other big problems this season is their ill discipline, absolute inability to get on side, which just killed killed you all day because it just gave up field position constantly.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Um, I think we got pinged six times in the first ten minutes or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

You're not gonna win a game doing that. If Callum Chick is getting sent off on seven minutes for repeat infringements, is a that is a bad tone to have set to your game. Um I I think this the Tigers pack is it's one of the best forward performances. You know, we've got you know if you take it against we'll unogise a little bit about the Bath pack and what they do um and what they're um they've been capable of this season, but actually the dynamism of the Tigers pack in this game was streets ahead of anything I've seen the Bath Pack do.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Um there's a reason Nestor are one of the teams that have beaten Bath quite comfortably this year, and that would be a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

And I think this starting lineup in particular, uh maybe with Oli Cracknell in the mixture as well, but this this lineup has all the hallmarks of being one that will go on to potentially lift the trophy at the end of the season because I can't see who lives with a pack in this in this form. Um in the back line, I thought James O'Connor, this that this was the James O'Connor that I thought they were signing. Uh I thought him and Orlando Bailey looked excellent together, they just absolutely ran the show. Um I thought Freddie Stewart had one of his best games of the season, the pass for Ollie Hassel-Collins try on playing against his TikTok mates, and that's fine. Look, but in a get in a in a battle against Furbank in that position where the ability to playmake from deep at the moment looks like it's one of the key um facets a fullback needs to have. Freddie Stewart showing his ability to do that with that pass over the top to Ollie Hassel Collins would have done him no harm in making the England squad this summer. Um Will Wand, really solid again. Just he's just this whole it's such an impressive season from him. Yeah, um, Hassel Collins, you know, finishes the try. I thought he was just good and just very good looking. I'm liking the new D. He looks um he's moved up.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

He's moved up Raw's Rolodex of romance in rugby.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

He he is, yeah, yeah. He looked he looked like a absolute movie star at the moment. So uh good on him for that. Um but star of the show in the back line, I think, was uh was Adam Radwan. Um yeah, hard to put down, isn't he? Hard to put down, taking ball at first receiver and crashing it up, making ground. Again, a bit of an indictment against the Saints defensive.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Um He's just a slippery little sausage roarie. He's just a slippery little sausage.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

He is he is bloody slippery and and deceptively powerful. Yeah. Um and you didn't get any change out of him in defence, really. Uh no, no.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Yeah, you had one particular turnover, I think, where we got one. I think we had one of the rare moments where he actually put a move together and broke the broke the line, but then he got back there and made a turnover tackle on I can't remember who it was now. I've I've blocked most of the game out of my memory. Um it's probably also worth touching on, you know, social media's favourite topic, which is Henry Pollock.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Well, I was I was getting to this one, David, because I think this is something to um to slightly uh linger on a little. Uh there's there's two real moments that stand out for me, one one more so than the other. The the the um the slightly smaller one is uh him tapping and going with the penalty, then kicking the ball away. Oh you're chasing the bonus point last player of the game. Oh, don't get me started on that.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

I was a slight slight I I I applaud the endeavour of tapping and going. I got the idea of that, but then why he kicked it, I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

Um when the bonus points on the line, and you know, it's looking like bonus points could have been really useful on this day.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Yes, that's um that did annoy me, but not nearly as much as what I imagine the next thing you are going to raise was it's uh well let me paint a picture, Deb, because you and I are of a similar size.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Um you and I used to frequent the odd nightclub back in the day. Yeah, and I know that we've experienced this uh when a smaller, drunker, more angry man decides that they want to have a fight with you in a nightclub, and they decide to give you the push where they go backwards and you don't move, yeah, and then they give it the old come on then, come on then, and shake their head and sort of and give it the old come on to uh Harrow Liebenberg, I think it was on this occasion. Yeah, wrong wrong guy, wrong guy to pick up there, Henry. Um half a foot taller than uh Pollock in this occasion. He looked half a foot taller because Henry Pollett looked like an angry little boy um on uh on a high street in uh in Essex.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Like um I would normally support all the antics that he gets up to. I like I'm pro it, but I feel that that particular moment wasn't a good look for him because it did look a bit like he's come on looking for a fight, and like we've like you say, we've all seen that sort of body language where he's trying to goad them into doing something. Uh I think that particular moment wasn't his finest, and it's not something that I think he should be trying to do more often. Maybe he just got caught up, like maybe he's sitting on the sidelines and seeing what we're all seeing that Northampton Saints were not having any luck at any of the any of the physical aspects of this game, and he's tried to come on to bring a bit of bite, but he's just done it in the wrong way.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Um, so the look of amusement, uh the mixture of amusement and disdain on Hamro Liebenberg's face, watching him sort of hop about, uh trying to goad him into throwing a punch is will live long in my memory, I have to say. And look, I also am a fan of Harry Pollock. I'm I'm not a naysayer to to the antics, I'm not an naysayer to the personality. Um, but you have to call it like you see it sometimes, and this particular event was embarrassing.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

It was, and yeah, I don't and I also don't I don't think that painted him in a good light. Um so yeah, hopefully a bit less of that, a bit more. Because I think actually when he came on and when he was actually playing rugby, you can tell he was trying to make a difference and he had some nice moments, but obviously it still wasn't enough. But he he's like all the none of his rugby is in the highlights of this game now. It's all about how he's reacted to Freddie Stewart rubbing his hair on the floor and what he was doing to Harry. Yeah, I think the only nice thing that comes out of this game is like the post-match stuff where you see like it does confirm how rugby, like the players, once the final whistle goes, they go back to being mates, you can carry on, but you can also be the worst of enemies when you're in a game, but but you can kind of put it all to one side after the game. Like I still think that is one of the most redeeming factors about the sport we love.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Yeah, of course, of course it is. Um, but um the vast majority of social media in particular hasn't seen that. What they have seen is is the more embarrassing episodes of that, and it does paint him poorly.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Um I'm not gonna sit here and defend that particular thing.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

And I think I what what my my sort of overriding thoughts of it are, and it's you know, I think it's a it's a blip in one game that went badly for Saints, and he'll get over it and he'll come back.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Oh, he got he doesn't he doesn't give a donkeys about what that what that looks like. And that's that's probably why it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

But also I don't think it's not worth him kind of reflecting on in sense of am I bringing what I want to bring to the game if I do something like that? You know, what am I actually having the impact for my team if I do something like that, or is it actually have I brought the wrong energy and I've and I've detracted from the internet?

SPEAKER_01 53:39

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the teammates and some of the even coaching team would not have mentioned something about this this week, or will not be mentioning it. One, I reckon his teammates will be taking the mick out of him for it. I'm sure of that. Yeah. And I wouldn't be surprised if Phil Dowson or Sam Veste put him aside and just kind of explain look that we get what you're trying to do, but that moment that wasn't how we that's that isn't what we needed from you at that moment. Um what we needed from him was more on the pitch rather than outside the referee's whistle. Uh, but you know, I think we've dwelled on this awful, awful game long enough, Rory.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Um yeah, well let's just just to linger slightly, so it's Leicester Tigers 41, Northampton Saints 17. Northampton Saints coming away from this game with zero points, nil, zip, nothing from the East Midlands derby for Northampton Saints. Um, and the title race is hotting up.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

It sure, sure is so much so that I'm almost half tempted to say, do we just skip the next two games and go to the Sunday game? Because that's really made things really interesting. But that would be unfair on Bristol Saracens and Newcastle. Let's be fair. This result tightens things up in the playoffs as well. Yeah.

Saracens Roar Back Against Bristol

SPEAKER_01 54:55

So Bristol Bears versus Saracens, then, Rory. What did you make of this game?

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Um ominous, I think is the word that comes to mind here. Um, possibly too little too late from Saracens, but ominous, ominous signs. If you've got them, uh let's say I wouldn't want to be the team going to Saracens this weekend, for example. Um no, I am we are the team that goes to Saracens this weekend, for example. Um no, very, very ominous signs as to the mood that Saracens seem to be in come the business end of the season. Um and look, it it may end up being too little too late to uh make a push for the playoffs. Um obviously we will be discussing um the extra bath game and the implications that that will have um for the playoff run-in. But you know, between right now, between third and sixth, there is 10 points with 15 points to play for. It's tight, and Saracens on the strength of this performance um look in the mood to make a push for it. Um obviously starts off very well for Bristol, they score within the first couple of minutes. Fitz Hardin. Um Bernard Jansen from Brunsburg, who was fantastic in this game. He was absolutely brilliant again. Um gets the the long ball over the line out, makes the half break. It they play a few more phases, he's back in again, makes another big carry, and then it's a pick and go, and Fitz Hardin finishes over the line. Um the his opposite number though, Hartley, another really good game from him. He's he's again he's coming to some really good form at this end of the season. Uh he's the catalyst for Saracens getting their first penalty a few minutes later. Um, Bristol have a good opportunity to go ahead. They cough up a line out on the five-minute line, and I think the injuries, the destabilising nature of their selection at the moment, and Packers starting to get on top of them at this end of the season, where their line out in particular looked um shaky shaky when it's been one of the most solid ones of the in the league all season. Um, missing Ogre now, obviously. Um, Thacker, obviously a very good hooker, but just there's just a lot of moving parts now that keep changing for Bears, and I think that's starting to put pay to things. Um, the the Saracen's machine machine just sort of rumbled on from there. Um, Tom Willis scores, very Saracen's kind of score, winner penalty, line out mole, pick and go. Tom Willis scores. It's it's like a it's a blueprint that Saracen's been playing for a long time. Yeah, a tale as old as time. Yeah, a much less Saracen score line was the Hugh Tizzard one a few minutes later. Um, Noah Clory takes an amazing high ball uh off a Bracken box gate. It's a really amazing. I mean, I suppose at this point of the season I've been watching him enough that I shouldn't continue to be impressed by his ability in the air, but I still am. The air, he the the the just the gap between the bottom of his feet and the ground, David, is continuously surprising to me.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Well, it's it is a surprisingly amazing skill. I think the only thing I'll say on Calori is I think and I think this is a coaching thing more than him, is he gets so high he doesn't need to worry about slapping the ball back, he doesn't need to focus on catching the ball because no one's getting as high as him.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

Yeah, I I I agree, and I think this is something that English wingers in particular need to go back to because we obviously had a lot of success from the slap down last season or last year, last calendar year uh at in international, and I think that was sort of adopted by a lot of people. Actually, most teams have figured it out now. You just field players where the ball drops, and then you've actually got a really good position yourself. Yeah, so um I think they have to go back to catch it, and I think Kalori's more than capable of doing it, as he showed in the build-up to this try.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

Um it's just you worry for his physical well-being because, as we've also seen in this game, that could lead to him falling quite heavily from quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

Yeah, well, in fairness, anyone who collides midair with uh Calavetti Ravuvu is gonna come off second best. I don't care who you are.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Yeah, that's very true. That's very true.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Um, but yeah, so Tizon, he he off the back of his, he makes a break and offloads it. Tarisons play more phases, and Hutizel's there again to finish it off through traffic. And this point, I think um the dam doesn't break, but Bristol is shaking and their discipline's quite poor. Um, they do uh they do get one back. Um Thacker scores after about 25 minutes. It's a really nice play from Bristol. Um, they win a pen uh after um there's more as they just keep tapping and going, they keep offloading. They win the pen, get to the corner, and then it's a really good lineup mall. We've talked about the Bristol lineup more before. It's it's really efficient, it's very sort of an antithesis to the rest of their kind of play, but their lineup mall is incredibly strong. Um, and Thacker finishes it off, but then Saracens go down the other end of the field, and Shagan scores it's off uh off a lineup. Fergus Burke, who's again he's come into very good form, he's playing very well at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

He's showing his toe quite a few times now, isn't he? He's finding gaps quite easily.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Yeah, he is. He is. I think maybe the drive pitches maybe help him, I don't know. But um he breaks through and and Shagan finishes it off. Earl then scores a few minutes later. Um, very strange try, because go back and forth and back and forth, but eventually Hartley makes the bust through and Ben Earl finishes it off. Yeah, he's he was very good, and then uh Moroney scores a few minutes later, and it's a very breathless first half. There is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight tries in the first half.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

Was the Moroni try the one where Ellis Genj does the bullet out of the back pass offload to kind of make the tries? Yes, yes, I think it is. Yes. That was a that was a that was one of those moments that's kind of it'll go unnoticed, but the fact Ellis Genj pulled that off and it was a lovely little pass. Um tip of perhaps to you, Ellis.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

Yeah, although I think overshadowed by Jamie George's offloads uh for Fergus Burke's try. Yeah. Um, right before half time.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

There was a few of these from front rowers uh this weekend, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, so the first half is incredible. Yeah, eight tries, 2134 at half time, and at that point you're thinking, right, well, this is the best game of rugby I've ever watched. Yeah, this is phenomenal. Um, and then we're gonna get another try for over half an hour.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

Second half changed it a bit, didn't it? It went a bit it's uh cagey.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

Yeah, I mean, you know, first half I think was very defined by I mean, the Bristol defence was really struggling, they were they were they were porous. Um, and uh, but Charlie Bracken's speed of ball, I think, is what did it. The fact that Charlie Bracken was part was getting the ball off the base so quickly, and Fergus Burke was finding gaps with his running game, and Oli Hartley was cutting such good lines, that kind of 9, 10, 12 axis, it just shredded the Bristol defence just time and again, they just didn't know how to handle it. Um, and Saracens were playing with genuine ambition and genuine um abandon, really, with the ball, which was which is really good to see because that there's always been a team that's got it never seemed to quite be performing to the level we know their players are capable of. They they play a much more conservative style of rugby than they need to. Um, but in the first half they really didn't, and they were excellent.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

Well, you said they they've scored the most tries this season, so they they yeah, but most of those are just calorie against Sale. Yeah, to be fair. That that is probably over 10% of that easily.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

Um has he scored ten against Sale?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Uh is it ten? Yeah, it must be, yeah, because he scored five both times, hasn't he? When he's played them. So he's scored he's scored ten tries by himself against one of the things.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:39

So you know, yeah. So you know, let's let's slightly uh put an asterisk against that. But no, you're right. They they they've played with they've played more rugby this season, maybe, but um they're sort of feast and famine, I think, I found with Saracens this season. They either batter the team they're up against, you know, 85 points against Sale uh last time out, uh, or they don't look like they could score a traffic and watch them over the line.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

They went through that month or two where we were kind of they just did not look like a cohesive unit and they were not it wasn't looking right. That doesn't look the case anymore. Uh it definitely looks like they're firing on most cylinders, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

Yeah, no, right now they look absolutely on it, and for Bristol and Extra above them, they know that they are breathing right down their necks. And is in the second half, they did show the second half of the game, that the the other half part of their game, their defence was absolutely monstrous. They, you know, for half an hour Bristol huffed and puffed and just couldn't make any headway through them. Um, it took it was a lot of Bristol pressure in the red zone, but it took one of the best crossfield kicks I've seen this season from BJVR again, yeah. Um to Vuvu to finally score a try.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Um, but you know, it took something really, really special for Bristol to score. Um, and then it took something really, really special to finish it off, and the unfortunately it was special in a very different sense of the word. Um Tobias Elliott scoring just before the uh the final whistle because Harry Randall taps and goes on the five-meter line and then throws the worst pass of the season. Yeah, in football, they talk about you don't pass it square across the back because people will intercept it and just run through on goal. Yeah, that's sort of the equivalent of that. Yeah, a sort of a bloated 25-metre pass that wasn't going to wasn't going to get to Moroni anyway. But Tobias Elliott, I mean, eyes lit up, just cantered in to collect it and go under the posts.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

I'm I'm heavy semi-confident that if I was in that position, I would have had time to have got that intercept as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Genuinely, I think you and I would have been able to have reached that one. Um we're not we're not known for being great readers of the certainly not in the 79th minute. No, um but I mean, yeah, it would have been harder to have missed it, I suppose, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

But um yeah, it's a bit of a put a bit of a dampler on the end of that game because obviously that took away the bonus point from Bristol, which could be vital. Um because they would have been oh no, they were they were uh they were no, they were they were still they they've obviously got the world for tries, but they were after the second bonus point.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

Yeah, yeah. Um but yeah, I mean really poor from from Harry Randall, really. And I know I get I know what he was trying to do, and it's obviously that's his job is to build tempo and to put speed in the game. But at that point, I think kicking for field position and playing off the line that would have been the better call.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:37

Well, in hindsight for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

Yeah, well, yeah, hindsight's 20-20, but I think on your basically on your own goal line.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

Yeah, that's um yeah, absolutely. But the game ended 41 26 to Saracens. Helpful win for them. They are breathing down the neck of fifth and fourth position. Uh, and as you said, that that is becoming really, really interesting fight.

Quins Put Newcastle To The Sword

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Um, the next game, Rory, is Newcastle Red Bulls against Harlequins. I will be brutally honest with you and the listener. I have not watched this game because there really wasn't much in it for me. I've seen the score. It's a bit of a cricket score. It doesn't look like it was much of a muchness. It was just a chance for Harlequins to have a bit of a procession, have a bit of fun, and they looked at yeah, it's not worth dwelling on.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

Quinn's I mean Red Bulls 17, Quinn's 76. Hugely disappointment from the Red Bulls. This would have this was again, they really could have targeted to win. Actually, if they had done, they had an opportunity to get themselves off the off the foot of the table. But no, Quinn's absolutely battered them. There isn't really much to focus on here. I mean the the the defence of the Red Bulls, pathetic. I mean genuinely pathetic, and I'd I say those words completely advisedly. Their frontline defence was pathetic. Bradley and Northmore in the Quinn centres had an absolute field day. Josh Hodge, I'm afraid to say back to his revolving doorways. But one of the worst defensive performances I've I can remember. So the less said about the Red Bulls in this one, the better. From a Quinn's perspective, a couple nice moments. Jamie Benson scoring a hat trick. He's obviously off to Ulster, I think, at the end of the season. Maybe another one that's got away from England, maybe. Possibly, but nice, nice for him. Is it James Hobson? Will Hobson? Will Hobson, you got there. Will Hobson. Will Hobson the loose head scoring a try, running in from 25 metres. That was a nice moment for him.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:41

We always love those moments.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

Yeah, giving it the old swan dive under the uh under the sticks. Uh, and Jimmy Staples coming on at debut for Hooker and scoring a try for Quins as well. So well done, all of those. Um, but uh we're not going to bother um analysing this one uh in any great depth because frankly, we've all got better things to do than worry about this game. It was pathetic.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Yeah, um we said with sale that I bet they're wishing the season be over. I I imagine the entire Red Bull brand is hoping the season ends sooner rather than later because they would not want to be associated with what was put on that pitch, I imagine, because uh that can't be what they've invested

Exeter Expose Bath’s One-Speed Plan

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

in. Um but there is another game that very much desire requires attention, and that is Exeter Chiefs. Saving a Northampton Saints fans weekend by going away and showing that bath rugby are not all that. And I'm gonna double down and be all smug here because this is what happens when you have a bath team with a backline that is unable to perform with a fly half who's really not in form, and they're not playing very good rugby, and it's not very exciting, and they're unable to string some stuff together, like I've been saying for the last few weeks. And the second you get a team that figures out how to nullify the bath pack, you beat them 35-12, and that's exactly what X's done. Start Kieran Donahue.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

I uh I can't really argue too much with your assessment of the bath performance. They were they were poor uh in this one. Um physically by and large dominated, um a bit of a changed team missing.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

I mean the thing I love about this is that every excuse that a Bath fan may have brought up about it being a European semi-final and they're tired. Exeter also had a European semi-final, so they would have been equally tired. So I know the only excuse I've seen come out of this is the fact it's the ref again. Uh those refs really hate Bath apparently. Um they complaining about the ref? Yes, that's what I've seen. Uh I've seen Yeah, I know. They've said, Oh, it's hard to go and win at Sandy Park when you're playing 16. No, it's hard to go and win at Sandy Park when you are the second best team on the pitch, uh, which you literally were by a distance.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:56

Uh pretty much across the board. Um I suspect they're referring to the Quinro red card.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:02

Um, I think they're they're probably annoyed at that because there was there was another head contact later in the game for X to Chiefs. Cramel Riddle we've got just a yellow, but I am inclined to agree with how the ref went through the protocols, went through the steps they need to go through. To me, it sounded reasonable and it looks this is the problem with the the way the laws are written. Um there is going to be an element of crossover between what's red and what's a 20-minute red, or what's a 20-minute red and what's a yellow. Blurry lines maybe, but I think if you listen to how the ref explained how they went through the processes, he he made the right decisions, I think, on those bases.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:38

Yeah, probably. I mean, I I could be persuaded that Quinn Roos one was harsh to be a 20-minute red, but at the same time, he's got all the time in the world to get lower there. So I have limited sympathy with him. Um the Campbell Riddle one, I think, is definitely a yellow. Um so yeah, I'm I I I don't I think you could probably argue the toss on the 20-minute red car between yellow and 20-minute red, but that's also not the reason you lost the game. It's not the reason they lost the game. The reason they lost the game is they lost the physical battle with Chiefs. Um this sort of bomb squad tactic, I think it it obviously has paid dividends for them a lot this season. Um but by the time they deployed it in this game, they were I think 18-5 down by the time they brought on Menu Abanu, Keppetupelotu, and Thomas Otoy. Um Charlie Ores already had to come on, so they've lost the impact of bringing Charlie Uwers on. They bring Cam Redpath on for Will But well, no disrespect to Will Butter who I think is a fine player, but Cam Redpath is above him in the 12 in the pecking order at 12. Why are you not starting Cam Redpath?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:54

Um, you know, I they lost the physical battle, they lost they lost the scrum up until the point they brought the bath bombs on, and by the time they were looking at turning things around at scrum time, they lost the ref, so they weren't really getting any change out of him at scrum time either. Which I I heard the frustration from I think Tom's the toy that they weren't getting the penalties at scrum time, but by that time the the ref had already turned on them. Um and they were outperformed by I mean some really notable individuals. Um Lenikatal, phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

Can I put forward uh the most surprising world-class performance of the season?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:33

I know who you're gonna say, and you can, but just let me list something the other names so that we can really dwell on that one. Okay, uh, I'm almost certain we're thinking of the same one. Uh, but Lenekatel um obviously scored his first try, he was a freight train at 12. Oh, yeah, he was huge. He was carried so hard, he was exactly the player that they thought they were signing, but obviously, injuries sort of robbed them of. Um, I this reminded me why I like Lenekatau as a player. Yeah, he was he was superb. Um, I thought Ross Vincent was excellent. Um the the pullback for um uh I want to say it was Paul Brown Bampo's tribe, the pullback on the line um behind him when he's engaged two or three defenders by because he's so quick he's engaged all the defenders on him and he pulls it back right on the line, creates all the space out wide for Paul Brown Bampo. Um I thought he was fantastic. I thought Christ shouldn't have his best game for two or three seasons um at seven, just seemed look just look freed up at seven, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

Um he looked like the player who stormed onto the seam like two, three years ago, and I was like, oh, who's this guy? Um he just kind of disappeared, and then oh, there he is, he's back.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:49

He's played a lot at lock, I think. And actually, playing him at seven, I think you get more out of his athletic talent, but he just looks a bit more freed up to roam around the pitch, hit breakdowns, hit tackles, gets hands on the ball. Yeah, um, he just looked better there. Um, so maybe he's just better off at back row than he is at second row. Yeah. Uh Hooper, another great performance from him. Um, really impactful. He's one of the signs of the season. Daf Jenkins, shout out for the grub a kick. Um, he's been fantastic for Chiefs this season. He looks back to being the player that um screamed Welsh Captain uh when he first burst onto the scene. Zamboni, impressive again. Yeah, um, maybe the sign of the season.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:35

He's gonna be in the conversation for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

For difference of between fanfare and impact, um, Zamboni, I think, could be my sign of the season. Um, there's only one man you can talk about. And actually, on this occasion, and I say this as a as a former uh dictator of a uh a nation designed to hail these players, but I'm actually going to hand over to David to describe the world-class performance of this last man.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:03

It's just it it genuinely is the most unexpected, out of nowhere performance from an individual player that I've wasn't on my bingo card for this round, and it was Josh Yosepha Scott. He was everywhere. I do not know what he was what was in his breakfast that morning, but he had a ridiculous amount of carries, he was tackling everything that moved. His offloading game and his passing game was a pinpoint. I think for Len Ikertau, it was his offload that put Len Ikertau through for the the try. And he done that a couple of times, and he was just he was everywhere, he was an absolute menace. I really do not know where this has come from. Because if you were to look at the stats for this season, he's right up there on my naughty list for forwards who've had the least impact in their carries. This game alone has unresist- I get that because it's it's shown what he's capable of, and I just I do not understand how he pulls that out when he's had, let's face it, a rather unremarkable season. Like there's there's no other moments of note that I could think back on in this season that he's had in any other game. This game's full of four, five, six moments. He made a couple of line breaks. It's just it's unreal how that performance has come from him.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:18

Yeah. From the the the offloads. I mean, obviously, he scores a try as well. And he scored a try. And he scored a try. Um the offload that he did two offloads of this game. Uh, one I think was to Chris Schunster, and one was to Stephen Varney. Uh, one was in the sort of very middle of the field, about halfway through the first half, where um uh just get just sets a move off, but it's just it just came out of nowhere. Everyone goes, what on earth happened there? And it was it was just a beautiful, beautiful offload. And this but the second one, he effectively gets an intercept, you know. I think the ball bounces off, I think it might be Ted Hill, yeah. Um, and he collects the ball loose in the air, makes the half break, and then throws the out-the-back offload to Varney, who sets Chiefs off the pitch. Now it doesn't end up in a try, so you know it it effectively comes to naught in the end. But the the way that he sets this this move off in the red zone, setting the attack off down the field, it's just beautiful, beautiful bit of play. Um, and yeah, the pass, the the no-look pass to Lenikitao to set him in for the try. Um, it's a nice uh it's a nice dummy line from Tom Hooper to to get the ball to him in the first place. He's runs the unders line, Tom Hooper runs the overs line. Um come and I think Vincent throws the pass to him, but then you know, you're the bath defence on the goal line, and you've got a big tight head looking looking at you in the whites of your eyes, bearing down your ball in hand, you're thinking, well, he's crashing this, he's gonna he's trying for the double. And then out of nowhere, he throws a no-look pass perfectly to Lenikata to to run it under the sticks. I could forgive the Bath defence for not seeing that coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:02

Yeah, that one I'll give you the pass on Bath because no no one was preparing for that on the training pitch. Seemingly extra must have, because there's no way that that's just happened naturally.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:12

That they've worked on that, surely. I mean, one of the best performances of the season. Yeah, I one of the best individual performances of the season. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:23

Like I I really run out of words to describe how I think I think even if this was like the best prop in the world, putting in this performance would still be waxing lyrical. But to come from someone who is kind of good prem standard prop and kind of you know goes about business, very rarely a highlight player, to pull that off, it just makes it even more remarkable to me. So, like this game, like I'd love to keep putting the boot in on Bath and how poor they were. But for me, let's do that. Oh, let's do that. Well, for for let's do a bit of that then. For me, I th I think Extra Chiefs basically figured out how you weaken Bath, and that's just you keep the ball on the pitch because Bath thrive off of set piece set piece ball and controlling the tempo. If you force them having to play the ball, force them to keep the ball on the pitch. We all know their back line is not firing in any way, shape, or form. As showing.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:14

Let me name some Bath players I saw next to nothing of in this game. Joe Thokken a singer, yeah, Ollie Lawrence, Henry Arundel, Will Bart, Tom de Glanville, Tom de Glanville. I saw nothing of them in this game, really, up until I noticed Henry Arundel left the massive doghead for uh Campbell Riddle's try towards the end. Um yeah, I I've probably tried to temper some of your criticism over the last few weeks of Bath Bath's tactics, but on this occasion I have to completely concede the point that they did not try to play any rugby. Um, they played a pen man game at best uh in this one, um, and it was their undoing because they didn't get any change out of uh Chiefs up front. Obviously, um Sam Underhill scores uh off a good line out mole, it's a good finish from him. Uh Frost scores off another line out mole. What are the chances?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:10

Line out more.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

What are the chances? Um, you know, uh I mean, so for my my notes, I'll just I'll read you my note for the Dan Frost try. Pick go, pick go, pen, line out more 10 metres up.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:21

You could copy and paste that for most of their tries this season, if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:25

And you know, the the pick and go, constant pick and goes with the forwards. The reason why I I was so effusive about the French teams that did that is what they were doing was creating space to then spin the ball out and let their backs express themselves. Absolutely at what point of Bath can it bring that element into their gameplay?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:46

So, Rory, I'm not going to get angry that this is what I've been saying. If Bath has figured out, because you know they've got the best 10 in the world in Finn Russell that they could do that, just blimmin' well do that and be exciting for once, because you might actually, you know, entertain your fans for once, because they've got the players to do it, like I've said, but they're not choosing not to.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:09

I've as I say, I I have to concede the point to you, I think, at this point, because uh you know the reality is um they were rubbish in this game, and Chiefs were deserved

Who Actually Wins The Premiership Now

SPEAKER_00 1:21:19

winners. Um, and Bath have got Newcastle at home this weekend, which is a nice soft landing off this one, but they're then away at Bristol. That is not an easy game for them, and they've had a couple of ding-dongs in the last couple of seasons, and then they're at home against Tigers before the end of the season.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:35

I have a home like this that's gonna decide second and third, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:40

I mean, you know, Northampton are at home against Bristol this weekend, and that is not a sure thing. But I would I think injuries are probably gonna put paid to Bristol's ambitions there, but they might not, and Northampton will have to bounce back from their performance. But you know, Tigers have got Sale away. Well, the way Sale are playing, I think Tigers win that one pretty hands down. Then they've got Chiefs at home, tough one, but Leicester at home or a tough one, but Leicester at home, yeah, and then of course they finish at the rec. Now, if you say to the Tigers, home home semi-final on the line, you've got to go to the rec and perform. I know their away form isn't as strong as their home form, that would go for pretty much any team. I I think to be honest, off not just on the strength of this weekend, but off the back of the last three or four weeks of Prem play, I now have to concede that I think Tigers would have the edge in that game.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:35

Yeah, right now Tigers are my favourites for the title, the way things are currently set. They're the form team. They're the form team, I think Northampton's injuries have come in the wrong positions at the wrong times. That's a shock again. Bath really, I think they're being exposed a little bit for being one-dimensional. Yeah. Um Exeter, I think, would Exeter Leicester could be an interesting matchup, but I just don't see that happening.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:59

Um if Saracens are in this form and make the playoffs, big if at this point, but it's not outside the realms, and they're playing like this. I could see them giving both Bath and Northampton a very tough game, even away from home.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:16

Yeah, it's a weird one where the two teams at the top seem to have lost their mojo a little bit, um, which is making the race to the end of the season a bit more interesting, uh you know, providing a bit of context for us to talk around, which you know we don't need much fighting to do. But you know, it's absolutely great. This game is all about Exeter being phenomenal and yeah, they were great. They were absolutely great. And really putting the cat amongst the pigeons this week, let's say, by really closing up that top four altogether, and then with Saracens and Bristol and that result, top six, it's it's tasty. And um who says you need relegation for a league to be interesting, hey?

Team Of The Week Picks

SPEAKER_01 1:23:59

Not me. Not me, but so what we'll do, Rory, very quickly, we'll do our teams of the week. We'll do them very quickly because we are running short on time, and then we'll do our predictions for next weekend. So let's start off with our front rows. Your one, two, three, Rory. Barbara Barbara Ruskin, Jamie George, okay, Josh Yosepha Scott. Okay, I I've got no issue with that. I've gone Nikki Smith, Jamie Blameier, Josh Yosepha Scott. Um maybe it's just because I was on the receiving end of that Leicester performance.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:30

It's not it's not a bad shout. I went for Jamie George on the basis of the offload as much as anything. I thought Jamie Bremire was very good though. Um I probably would dig my heels in on Val just because he absolutely battered Ashro Poco for journeys crumb time.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:43

I'll give you Big Val. I'll give you Big Val. That's absolutely I'll give you Jamie. I'll give you Jamie Brmire. Oh, look at us working together. Second row, I've I know it's not technically the right shirt numbers, but I've gone Oli Chesham, Arthur Clark.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:54

I know they're both fives, but I went no Oli Chesham was four, so you're okay. No, I think they're both still made a mistake, but uh I actually went Oli Chesham and I toyed between George Martin, but I actually in the end I did just land on Hugh Tizzard.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:08

He had a really good game for Saracen. He did have a good game to be fair. I was gonna say in the Saracen's commentary, but I got distracted by Calori. I think yeah, Tizard had he's quietly having a really good season. Um reminding us of where when he was at Harlequins and he was almost getting into like England squad conversation, and Saracen snapped up and he just kind of disappeared for a little while. Maybe a name to have on the back burner as maybe an option in the second row if we wanted to throw a really real big curveball. Your back row, six, seven, eight. Liebenberg, center Vincent. Okay, so I've gone Liebenberg. I couldn't decide between Ben Earl or Fitz Harding, because I think both of those had huge games, and I went Tom Willis at eight, just because Tom Willis does Tom Willis things. Yeah. I'll happily give you Vincent though.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:54

Yeah, I think Vin I just thought Vincent was excellent for Chiefs. Um I went Venter because it was by some distance his best performance of the season for Gloucester. But I suppose if you were forcing me to be remotely objective, I could concede Ben Ow. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:10

I'll force you to be slightly subjective then in that case, and I'll take Ben L. Just because I gave you Valor Part of Ruskin. Yeah. Um your nine. Varney. Varney, I'm in agreement. And I have a feeling we're going to be in agreement at 10 as well. Charlie Atkinson. Charlie Atkinson. Knight, it's very obvious and clear. Your centres ten and twelve. Uh 12 and 13, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:29

Uh 12 was Lenner Catal.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:32

My 13. I thought Luke Northmore had a really good game for Quinn's, but he was a training match. So I actually went Will Wand.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:39

So I was I couldn't decide between Will Wand and Henry Slade. I went Slade. I'll happily give Wand.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:46

I think Will Wand was so effective there for uh for uh Tigers. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:51

Wingers. I was half tempted to go Freeman, but I know there's debates to say, you know, Northampton said had a really bad game. He scored two tries. He finished the last time.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:00

He did score two tries, but the right wing for me was sewn up by Adam Radwan.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:04

I was just trying not to do Adam Radwan Oli Hassel Collins, because I think it's those two. He went Ben Loader on the left. Fine. If it means it's not two two Tigers, that's fine. And your fullback. Uh I went Steward. Yeah, so I went Woodburn. He was excellent for Chiefs. He was excellent. Considering he's not normally a fullback as well. I'll give you Woodburn so I don't have to force you to have too many Tigers players. Fantastic. That's what I like to hear. Okay, that's our team of the week. Um and you know, they all played really well. Hold on, all in the people involved, you can take that to the bank. It's uh its monetary value isn't very high though, so don't expect too much if you are listed in that team of the week.

Round 16 Predictions

SPEAKER_01 1:27:41

Right. Moving on to round of sixteen, we'll quickly run through our predictions. And it starts off Friday night and under the lights at the Cinch Stadium at Franklin's Gardens, Northampton Saints against Bristol Bears, one team licking their wounds, the other team also licking its wounds. Who comes out on top here, Rory?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:00

Yeah, I mean two teams that are going to want to bounce back. Obviously, Bristol desperate to um get themselves into the playoffs. But I just think injuries are going to put pay to them getting there this year. Uh Saints Well, let's be frank, dreadful this week. Um will have to have a response. I just I just don't think they can afford not to have a response this week. Um so I'm gonna go with Saints 35, Bristol 22.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:28

Yeah, I'm I'm happy with that. You're right, Northampton need a response because I think if there's not a response here, there's a very serious risk of the end of the season being a bit of a whimper because of the way the run-in's gone so far. We need a reaction, it needs to be kind of convincing. That's why I think it will be a five-point win for Northampton Saints. If that doesn't happen, I think there's a very very real risk that Northampton Saints will run out of steam and kind of from what has been a very good season domestically for Northampton Saints up to this point, could really start to tail off if we kind of back up a bad game with another bad game. So that's why I'm being confident in the Saints gonna be a five-point victory. Similar ballpark, 35-22 feels about right to me because I do see Bristol still scoring a few tries. Next game, Bath against Newcastle. This genuinely, I think, could be a cricket score, but you know, with a this could be this could be really quite ugly. With an opening maiden, maybe partnership. Yeah, I'm gonna go, yeah, yeah, it's gonna be a king pair, I think, for someone.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:26

Um I 65-0.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:29

Yeah, if that I could be higher, because uh Bath will want a reaction. They're gonna want to do I I see them sending out their big guns to show the rest of the league that they're not gonna they're not gonna rotate anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:41

Yeah, and I don't think Newcastle have got it in them to to respond at this point. It feels like the players have decided I'm not staying for next season, I'm done, no one's picked me up, you know, or I've I've either got a contract secured or I'm no longer a professional ripple player.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:55

I think that's basically what we're seeing now. So yeah, um get Henry Arundel and your fantasy teams, guys, because you can get five or six here. Um next yeah, Harley Quinn's against Extra Chiefs at the Allianz.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:06

Yeah, I mean Quinn's do perform at big game um or the summer kickoff. Um but I think this might be this might look a little bit more like big game at Christmas, where Bristol went down and uh and hammered them. Um I know Quinn's got just got a very big morale boost in win at Newcastle at the weekend, but I think this is a different beast for them. I don't think their pack could compete. I think Petty might be injured, which is a big loss for them in trying to trying to combat this pack. Treadwell's injured.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:39

Um I don't see Brim Bradley and Luke Northmore getting any change out of Ikatao and Slade if they're at 12 and 13. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:46

I'm gonna give this one to Chiefs. I'm gonna go Quinn's 17, Chiefs 36.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:54

Yeah, I I I see this being convincing with Rexter as well. And I think it'll be the difference between a team that still has something to play for versus one that really doesn't. And I think Exeter will be clinical, and I think they will be physical, and I think Quinn's just won't have an answer to them uh this time around. So yeah, um it may be not as high as a score from for me. I reckon maybe it might be like this could be like a bog standard like 28-12 or something like that. Um it may not be a tri-fest, but we'll see. We'll see. Rory, your predictions for Saracens against Gloucester. Do you know what?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:24

This is a fixture. This is this is this would have been one of the fixtures. If you'd asked me off the back of two really positive performances in Gloucester, what's the fixture I wouldn't have wanted next? And Saracen's away would have been right up there at the top. Um I can't really, in good conscience, sit here and tell you that I think we're gonna go down to Saracens and win this one. As positive as the last couple of weeks has been. Um, unfortunately, Saracen's in the mood they're in. You know, I think losing Thomas Williams has a big impact as well. If he's not going to be able to do that. Yeah, ultimately, uh, I just have to be honest about this one and say that I think Saracens will win this one fairly comfortably. I'm gonna think it's probably gonna be something like 35-12.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:11

Yeah, R thinking 42-17. Um couple of extra tries on top for for me. That's because it'll be a nice little spectacle. Because, you know, it's always nice to watch a good bit of running rugby. Maybe Clory gets another five, who knows? Oh, thanks, David. And then the weekend rounds off with Sale against Leicester. We've already touched on this. Comfortable Leicester win for me, this.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:32

Yeah, I'm thinking Tigers will win this one 39-16.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:38

Yeah, I'm not gonna argue that. I think it's cover it's comfortable for Leicester, whatever. Whatever way, I think whatever way you dice it up, it's yeah, absolutely. So those are our predictions. We will touch base next week and see how we've done.

Rory’s Final Thought

SPEAKER_01 1:32:51

But that brings this chocker block pod, Raw, to an end. But we can't end an episode of this podcast without Rory's final thought. So, Rory, please present your final thought for the listener so I can bring this lovely episode to a close.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:06

Henry Pollock, come and have a go if you think you're odd enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:10

And with that, we've been Rugs Malls and Overballs. Hope you've enjoyed listening. We'll be back again next week with some more rugby chit chat. If you've enjoyed listening, make sure to like, comment, subscribe, and all the other fun things. And uh, yeah, we've thoroughly enjoyed talking to you. Hope you've enjoyed listening. See you next time. Bye bye.