S2 Ep 32 - Prem Rugby's Weekend For The Wingers

English rugby can put on a brilliant weekend and still feel stuck in place. We start with the good stuff: club rugby silverware, big days out, and the sense that participation is finally stabilising after Covid. Then the mood turns as the RFU governance vote gets binned, locking English rugby into the same old structures for years. We talk honestly about what that could mean, from leadership fallout to the long-term risk of the Premiership pulling further away from the grassroots game.

From there, it’s full Premiership Rugby Round 14 mode. We celebrate a true weekend of the winger with monster metres and finishing clinics, then get into the details that actually decide matches: ruck speed, soft edges in defence, and which sides can win ugly. Bristol do the nasty breakdown work that powers their tempo, Saracens and Leicester serve up a proper throwback scrap, and Quins and Sale somehow make thirteen tries feel strangely flat.

Saints v Bath gives us a classic with plenty to admire and plenty to worry about, while Gloucester’s win over Exeter blows the top-four race wide open just as the run-in gets serious. We finish by arguing over a team of the week and putting Rory under pressure with Water Ranker. Subscribe, share the pod with a mate, and leave a review, then tell us: who grabs that fourth play-off spot?

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Transcript

Welcome And Weekend Chaos

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Rux Balls and Oval Balls. That's right, the fans' favourite rugby podcast. Back once again for some more rugby discussion, debate, contentiousness, news, everything you want from rugby. It's here at Rux Balls and Oval Balls. And as ever, it's me, Dave, joined by Rory. Rory, you know what to do. Say hello to the listener.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Hello, hello, listeners. Hello, David. How you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Oh, I'm I'm stupendous. I've I've I feel productive. I'm feeling energetic. I'm feeling like a man unleashed because I'm a man who's been doing DIY all weekend. And I am not a man who normally does DIY. I've been doing uh a little bit of gardening, I've been putting up lots of slats on the wall, a bit of this and that. I've had the silicon gun out, I've been siliconing stuff all over the house. I'm uh I'm just a I'm just a modern day macho man. Uh macho macho man. And it's, you know, for anyone who does know me, it's not usually my style. I'm usually the sort that gets things wrong and has to pay for someone far more talented and capable of me to do it for me. So you've always struck me as more of a project manager than a project doer. I feel that is a very accurate reflection of me in both my professional capacity and my social capacity. Uh but I'm feeling I'm feeling just oh I'm a I'm a I'm a get things done kind of guy this week. You're a man unleashed. I'm a man unleashed. You're not a tool guy by this time next week. You just you wait, Rory, just you wait. But I know for a fact that I'm not the only man unleashed. I'm not the only man on Cloud9 this week. Because for listeners who've been keeping a close eye on uh Rory's on-the-field antics, he's sure got an update for you all.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

We won. Silverware League winners this week. This time

DIY Bragging And League Winners

SPEAKER_00 2:05

next week, David, you could be talking to a treble-winning captain. Does it get much better than that? Can't think. Can't think how it would.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Are you now at your pinnacle of life?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

There's a there's an argument to say we're on the uh we're really on the backwards slide from here on in, but um hey, it's a high point to start your consistent downside from for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

It's a high point to be beginning from.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Tell tell us about the the game, any particular highlights? I've I've seen the photo of your not high tackle on the opponent. It wasn't a high tackle.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Um so so strange old day, really. So Essex decided to put all of the various Merit League final games on on the same day at the same rugby club. So nine games, I think it was going on. Oh, that's a busy schedule. Bit hectic. So our game didn't actually kick off till five in the afternoon. Which, if you've ever played lower league rugby, merit table rugby, that's a that's a late old kickoff for most of us.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

That's pre-dinner snacks time.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

That's not that let's be honest, that's prime boozing. Well, yeah, on a Saturday for sure. On a Saturday. Uh we uh we got the coach up there, bit of a weird setup, just trying to find some space to get changed and get ready, and you know, nice warm day in uh in East London at Barking RFC.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Lovely day for it.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Um yeah, great day for it. Um, you know, a bit of a just find some space where you can do a bit of a warm-up, chuck the ball around, do some set piece stuff, you know, just make do what's there. Um and then uh yeah, game game kicks off playing Chumpsford, who you'll remember a couple of weeks ago played, and I came away with a rather um gruesome looking air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so a bit of a wrench, and they were slightly different lineup to the one we played two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

I don't want to cast any aspersions around when that happens with two's uh two's teams, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, look, I say I don't want to cast aspersions as to what was going on there, but there were a few players I didn't recognise from two weeks previous. Um we we also had a slightly different lineup, but we are actually loaded up with um Colts players. Very nice. Well, they could have done the same, they could have done the same, but I would debate if these people were teenagers. Did they have quite full beards and grey hair? Yeah, or none at all.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Classic.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Um, but yeah, really good game. So first half quite sort of nip and tuck. I think we went in 21-10 at halftime.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Um, some really strong performers. We've got, I mean, we have got some seriously talented kids coming through at Westcliffe at the moment. Um, some of the Colts. I mean, I I think you know, you look back on on the on this season as a whole, and you know, I've really loved it, you know, I've had the opportunity to play my brother all season, which is great. You know, he's 10 years younger than me, so that's it's nice to been able to do that. Yeah, yeah. Great to have been captain, you know, and and to obviously to be fantastic to win trophies. I think after a f a few difficult years at the club to see some of the colour of players that are coming through, it's really, really good to see. Because we had a quite a barren, we had a really good sort of three or four golden generations, all came through at once and carried the club. We got as high as Nat two.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

And then post-COVID, sort of the arse fell out of it, really, and and we didn't have the you know the players to to plug the gaps of you know retirements and what whatever else. Um, but we're seeing this year some real talent coming through. I mean, I I won't dox any um any players on here, but you know, I would say in that in the team I played with on Saturday, there's five or six who are between the ages of sort of 17 and 20, okay, who have got really, really bright futures against that um up ahead of them. Um, and that's just great to see. Because they they, you know, you know, I've been a an old stager and a prop, my game is very different to theirs. Um I don't know if it complements it, but it's certain it's it certainly exists on the same paddock.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

I I think it's fair to say you do the work that they don't. Fair. They also do the work that I don't. And that goes both ways, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah. Um because I certainly wasn't the one running in tries from halfway line like our blind side flanker did.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Um, I hate it when forwards do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah, bad. Well, there's three or four really talented kids from um campion school who are one you'll probably be aware of. Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, some just some really talented boys come through all season, so that's which is great to see, and and to come away with the league trophy and hopefully the uh the the cup trophy this weekend as well. Um, you know, testament to those boys because they've been brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Fabulous. Well, uh it it's night and day compared to the conversations we're having last year when we you're talking about your experience with Westcliff, where there were some sub-weekends even as soon or as recent as last season, where you were struggling to scrap a 15 together, yeah, and really struggling. So for there to be such a huge turnaround, is this a sign of the changing tides in rugby and the whole? Maybe, maybe it's a good timing for Westcliff, who knows?

SPEAKER_00 7:07

But it's good to hear. I mean, you know, uh it was a weird setup, and I'm not sure I'd recommend they they do the same thing next year to have that many games at one season. But what I will say for nine merit table games to go, you know, and we're talking, you know, you're going down to sort of village clubs, really, you know, to being in there um and to to be, you know, just having a day. Loads of fans knocking about, you know, lots of people turned rocked up at Barking just from the local area to go watch it. And you know, we spoke about Barking a few few weeks back when uh I went and played there with our thirds. You know, just I don't know that rugby's ever going to bounce back to where it was 15-20 years ago when when you and I were coming through at rugby clubs and you know, teams regularly got out four or five teams a week. That's probably a bit fanciful with just the the you know the change in society, people have got other things going on, and you know it's not it's not sort of how it was back then. But what what I will say is I think rugby clubs are adapting to that world a bit, and actually I've seen far less games cancelled this season, couple, but not many, uh for the for the twos. Our threes have been getting a team out every week, and they're all you know, basically all of our vets, really, effectively. Um it's I think there's been at least a bounce back since COVID on numbers. That's you know, that's my take. I don't know if it's the same across the whole country. Maybe six is slightly different than than other places in that sense. It is a rugby hotbed in that sense, but um feels like it feels like there's been a bounce back on numbers, and it's you know, it is good to say.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Yeah, no, I agree. Um yeah, from some of the clubs that I've seen locally in Bristol, where I am, as that that certainly seems like uh there has been a little uptick um where people I go, I've been and watched and things like that. It certainly sounds like things are much more healthier at club level than they were last year, for instance. So it's good, it's good. It's really positive news, positive news for

Club Rugby Numbers After Covid

SPEAKER_01 8:56

once. Um and you know, I'd love to sit and dwell on positive news for the entirety of the podcast, and you know, we may well remain positive because we're a positive pod. Um but we've got to talk about the professional game, Rory. We can't spend an hour talking about Westcliff as much as I'm sure you could. Uh so we're gonna talk uh Slither of News, we're gonna run through Prem Rugby Round 14, do a little nice little team week, and round off

RFU Vote And Governance Stagnation

SPEAKER_01 9:20

with a lovely game of What a Rancor that we missed out on last week. Um so that's your running order, folks. Strap on in, and uh I hope you're ready to talk Prem Rugby and just rugby nausiness, because that's why we're here. Um starting off with uh it's kind of just uh rounding off last week's news segment where we spoke about the RFU vote that was taking place last week. That vote took place, Rory, and um Kel surprise, it went exactly as anticipated.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Yeah, yeah, the governance changes got voted down by the members. Um can't even blame the council for this one. The council waved them through, but the members didn't. Um in what I would describe as a severe case of short-sightedness. Um there can't be another government's change, I think, now until 2031. So for at least for the next five years, lovely. Um things will remain as they are, which I think is uh is a mistake. Hopefully the RFU can do more uh um insider trading within the within the walls of uh HQ to you know still pursue a lot of the goals that it was it was um laying out with these changes, but ultimately uh things aren't going to change the next five years. Uh rugby in England has decided not to try and modernise its governance structures and stick with the same old 19th century models that we've had the last 150 years.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Do you realistically envisage a time where a vote will ever go the opposite way like this? That is it just feels like there's probably just enough old traditional rugby clubs with people who have a say in this that they're probably gonna want to stick to their guns and not change, or can you foresee there being a changing of the tides in that sense as well?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Well, here's what I can foresee, David. Firstly, I think Bill Sweeney's position might become untenable.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Um having heard that before.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Well, you have heard that before. I'm I'm more sympathetic to him on this one because I think actually, taken in the round, a lot of the changes that have been made and the changes that were posited were very good legacy pieces for Bill Sweeney and probably would have put him out in the black in terms of um you know net positivity in terms of his effects on English rugby. Um but I don't know if he'll he'll be able to stay on or if he'll even want to stay on, having lost this vote, having worked for the last two years to try and implement it.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

If he can't do what he's been really trying to get going, then what's his incentive?

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Yeah, so I wouldn't be surprised if um if there wasn't uh a new man at the helm, or woman at the helm, sorry, I should say.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Or men from a particular podcast.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Or men, well, I mean available. We've cracked some skulls. Um but you know that that could certainly be uh um an outcome of this.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

The other thing I can foresee, and this won't happen straight away, but if you if you follow the trajectory of where prime rugby is going at the moment, I could absolutely foresee in a Premier League style move, Prime Rugby effectively breaking free of direct control from the RFU and becoming essentially its own entity. That won't happen straight away, you know, not until the league's solvent. But if you follow the um direction of travel that's under at the moment with the kind of investment that's coming at the moment, you know, are foreign investors going to want to be um Shanghai's by you know little Pidlington? Um poor little Piddlington. Yeah, um, probably not. So I would not be surprised to see see a breakaway um at some point in the future if if changes aren't made. And the the knock-on effect of that in terms of the international scene could be really quite stark because if the RFU loses direct control of of players in that sense, it it suddenly becomes um well, you suddenly start to think will England end up looking more like France did in the sort of 2010s when the before the before they got their act together pre-World Cup, um, you know, the North to a sense when basically the um FFR had no real authority and uh everything was was run pretty much by the rugby barons in the in the top 14. Um that could that could well end up being a uh a consequence of this. Um it won't happen straight away because the you know the thread is still too reliant on the on the RFU financially, but that changes.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

It's an interesting thought.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

I also well I suppose on the flip side of that, there was that other bit that came out this week around uh Saracens announcing quite big losses as well. So it kind of shows that the clubs still probably wouldn't be able to support themselves quite so well without a bit of backing. So I'll be surprised if it happened anytime soon, but I do get uh why that could be in the future if things don't change.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

I just think that's yeah, I say it won't happen within five years, may not even happen within ten years, but you know, the point of these changes to modernise the structures is to future-proof the game. Yeah, yeah. And if you don't future proof the game, then eventually the law of unintended consequences, you know, it could end up being probably a net negative for certainly the international game at least. And I think you know, look at you know, look at football. You know, rugby's never going to be football, and I'm not suggesting that that's that's that's ever likely, but there was a time when the international game in football was the pinnacle, yeah. It certainly isn't now, World Cup aside probably. Um the clubs very much rule the roost in in football because of that. You know, look at the IPL in cricket. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um you know, if you if you sort of lose that control of governance to a kind of a wealthy entity within the game, you know, I think it was one of the reasons why R360 I think was potentially so dangerous for the national bodies, not because of of any other, you know, if it but because it was so independent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Um if money is supposedly involved as well. If you if you've got deep pocketed people with a vested interest to do something different and their pockets are deep enough, they can find ways to make things happen differently.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Exactly. So um Live Golf, for example. Live golf, you know, obviously not looking positive for live golf now, but that was that was a potentially for for several years that caused real problems in golf. Um and you know, it's probably gonna keep causing problems as it hemorrhages Torsport and you know, they they try and you know wrangle control back. Um so you know, I I think it's a massive, massive shame that these these proposals didn't go through. Um you know, I'm not gonna pretend to be an absolute expert in sports governance and tell you whether each each individual proposal within it was the right thing or not. But what I will say is there's no way in hell a governance structure that was conceived of 150 years ago is still fit for purpose now.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

No, not not a chance. Um yeah, right there with you, Rory. It is a shame. Um watch this space, folks, about what the uh what the fallout may be from all this and what impact it could have, and whether it could lead to a separation of the high end of the game from the lower of the game, but through means outside of governance and through how deep your pockets are, which would just be guarantee Mike Tyndall with R360 will be back on the agenda. All over this. Yeah, yeah, all over this. Uh yeah. Watch this space, folks. Um well, that's all the

Premiership Returns And Wingers Go Wild

SPEAKER_01 16:55

news, unfortunately. It's not the most optimistic news piece.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

We don't we don't have an optimistic news section, but I we do have some optimism for you because despite the last couple of weeks where we've been a bit um downbeat on the the quality of the Prem, I think it's fair to say, where we've had some blowouts and some not great not great selection of games. Yeah, this week we have a selection of well of at least four, arguably five of the games. Yeah, yeah. It was our it was a feast. Really, really interesting, exciting.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

It was a great weekend of Prem Rugby. They have answered our call, Rory, for good rugby to talk through and chat through. And I just want I before we dig into the games, I wanted to give something we don't often do, Rory, here on this podcast, because you know, we're we're quite prop centric at times. Um, you know, from season one, our illustrious DPR FR, the Democratic People's Republic of front rows. Uh we champion we we we champion the uh the pack over the rest. But I thought this week it's time to give our flowers. It's the weekend of the winger, because there is some insane performances this week from wingers. There's six wingers across the game, considering only ten play and six of them carried over a hundred metres in the game. There was thirteen tries scored by wingers across the weekend, so you know, average that out five games, that's over two in each game from wingers. Um just some really stupendous stuff, and there's some really insane stats. I think there's I think Ben Loder beat like 13 defenders, I think Fay Reboard was. Yeah, I Toby Freeman got a hat-trick, Slightholm picked up two. Uh O'Flaherty continues to be the one shining light in what is a disappointing season for sale. Uh it's just genuinely a weekend for the winger, and we don't often do it on this podcast. But to our fleet-footed friends, kudos to you. Thank you for bringing the action. About damn time, people. The props have been holding it up for way too long. Uh but yes, now I've got that out of my system, Rory. I've done the the uncomfortable bit talking about the quick folks. Lovely bit of outreach. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, because bit of relationship building with the thinner folk of the of the rugby world.

Newcastle v Bristol Breakdown Battle

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Um digging in to first game, Friday night's game, Newcastle Red Bulls against Bristol Bears, uh, the much um talked about long journey to Kingston Park uh on a Friday evening to go play there in quickly turning into a much more lively atmosphere, a bit more hostile perhaps. Um and what happened was probably the least, a bit less maybe not the most competitive game of the weekend, but you know, it was still still a good game, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah, I mean look, there's no two ways about it. Bristol won this one pretty comfortably in the end, and that's what I was trying to say democratically. Um diplomatically. Um I agree with you because I'm democratic. Uh, but what I would say is you could see you can see a lot more in Red Bulls, particularly at home. You can see the the influence of the coach and Stephen Jones there. They actually look pretty cohesive in attack. Um they that the the structure of their attacks really nice, they're quite conventional, I would say, as a as an attacking team, yeah, which is probably um probably as much to do with the current personnel as anything. But I think having a good bedrock of a of a conventional structured attack is not the worst position to be in when you've got whatever it is, 20 odd players coming in in the summer. Um and I thought at times they were um I thought they were really insane, you know. If you take the Christian Wade try in the second half, you know, I know it was all for naught, but um it it was a really, really nice bit of attack finished off well by Wade after a lovely identification of space by Brett Conan to sort of give a crossfield, even though he's hard, he's sort of in the middle of the pitch, spots the space behind where Ibertoi would have been. He was actually caught himself in midfield. Um, but quite a nice uh a kick that sort of reminded me of this try that Tommy Freeman scored against France. Finn Smith makes that sort of looping crossfield over the top of BLBR from from sort of behind the posts, um in front of the post, I should say. It's just quite a it's a looping sort of chip that falls very kindly into Christian Wade's hands and finished off very well. But it was you know, it was one of several very nice attacks that Red Bulls put together. Ultimately, they were undone by some pretty soft defence at times. Yeah, I'm thinking of Tom Jordan's try. Um, there's a big run up by uh Ellis Genge, who was having a bit of a field day in attack, and then Jordan just sort of skins Brockleback through a hole. He didn't. Few times actually making a make it a breakthrough sort of soft defense in the middle. Um, and you know, Tom Jordan has played enough in the back three, he's got he's got actual toe, so he's he's rapid. Once he's through, he's through. Um, but yeah, I I think Lucas are where they are this season. They're they may pick up another win, you know. I think they've got they welcomed Quins on the last game of the season it's a chance for sure. Yeah, before the end of the season, you know. I I I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't pick up another win.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Um but I do wonder with Sank with Red Bulls, um, and it happened a few times in this game. Is Christian Wade's personal mission to break the try record costing them a couple of tries every now and then? Because there was a couple of things. Well, there was one particular moment.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Yeah, there's one particular moment where he makes a really nice break and he ignores Alex Hurl, I think it is, to try and step and go and he gets caught and then up losing the ball, I think. Um possibly it's hard to say because it's another aspect to it might be Christian Wade is making opportunities for himself. Yeah, and he's probably the best back they've got, and he's the most likely to score tries, so you've got to you've got to back him to back himself, haven't you?

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Probably I guess it's just I I think it's just in this game, it seemed I think there was a couple occasions where if he'd just shift it on one or two, they probably would have broken a gain line, they probably seemed really good release. Yeah, I think you're probably right. Um there's so much focus on him now breaking that record. There's no one it's there's no wonder it's like what he's doing because he's like this yeah, the expectation is that he does it, and he'll probably feel like he's not he's you'll probably feel like a bit of a failure, which would be ridiculous considering how many tries he's scored in his career if he doesn't break it, because everyone seems to expect it to happen, even though it's no easy feat. Um I think he's like is it 10-11 try short of Ashton now? I'm not sure off the top of the head. Yeah that's that's that's not easy, and he's 35 years old. Like realistically, he's got a lot of time.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

He probably does a bit of time out of the game, he might have more legs in him than you than you realise.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Um he's he's definitely still got toe, put it that way.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Yeah, yeah, he does. Um, and you know, next season he's gonna be surrounded by much some serious talent. He may well be able to put him in a bit more consistently.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Question Does he make the starting the strongest starting that's line up with some of the players they've signed as the other debate as well?

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Remains remains to be seen, but um you know he's sticking around in rebels, so he must think that he's gonna he's got a good chance of getting in that team. And you know, if he's if he's playing consistently and the rebels pick up their form next season, I'm not gonna put it past him to break that record.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

No, uh yeah, he's he's the sort of winger that on a on his day can go pick up three, four tries quite easily.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Oh, yeah, I mean he did it for Gloucester several times, you know. Just you know, he just he scores he scores tries that you you just can't predict at times. Yeah, yeah. Not many others do. Um what did you make of Bristol though? I thought they were good. I mean, uh their injury curse is just carries on unbelievable. I mean, Joe Batley pulls out before the game. Poor old Rich Lane just came back from a hamstring injury, pulls his hamstring score in the first try. Um, they lose, I think Ogrey, I think, went off injured. Uh Rondona. Rondona went off injured. Um, yeah, uh I they are gonna be really struggling to field a team at the end of the season, but I suppose we have said that before, and they was they still did pretty well.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yes, and some of their best rugby came in their injury crisis at the start of the season, so who knows?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

So maybe they're fine, but um yeah, it I think they're gonna be praying for some for some of those injuries being a lot less severe than maybe they looked. But um, I mean, all I think they've just carried on with what has been a series of quite good performances in the last few weeks. You know, obviously very good against Gloucester last week. I think in this one they were you know, they didn't really have to get out of third gear, probably. Um I think they where they were exceptionally good was they absolutely ruined Red Bulls at the breakdown, um both slowing up and stealing um Red Bull's ball and just being so accurate in their own breakdown, Red Bulls couldn't get near them. It was one of the problems Gloucester had. I think it's one maybe one of the things that is not necessarily as talked about with um bears, just how accurate they are there, and it's a big key to this. The reason they can play so fast and so accurately is this they get such quick ball at the breakdown. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

They're so accurate with it. I think because they they obviously drill that so repetitively in attack, that's gonna have benefits in the defence as well. That way they they're able to get to the rucks so quickly in defence that they they are gonna disrupt and they're gonna get steals, and yeah, it's definitely an impressive part of the game that really isn't spoken about anywhere near as much as their attacking game. I also thought this game really was an excellent um bit of advertising for their center partnership. I thought Van Rensberg and Moroni were super excellent.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Um yeah, they they were excellent. Again, they weren't tested like they will be against some of the other sides they got in the run-in, um, but they were they were particularly good. You know, Moroni's been around the block a few times, it's just just a classy, classy player. Um JVR is he's just mustard.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

The the campaign where it seems that the TNT commentators will mention every single week that he qualifies for England in the autumn seems to be building up uh uh ahead of steam. Uh remains to be seen whether that is actually even something he wants, because I'm yet to see anything on record him stating that's what he wants to do.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

But he's kept very stum on the matter, which is probably the right move from his point of view. But uh on on ability alone, it's a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. On ability, it's a no-brainer. From a uh standpoint of is it the right thing?

SPEAKER_00 27:42

It's a bit more grey. It's a bit more of a grey area than that.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

But on on one if we're gonna be so finicky about not selecting English players because they play across the English Channel, but then we're quite relaxed about selecting players because they've lived here long enough, it just doesn't feel yeah, doesn't quite go hand in hand for me in my head. You suggest an English rugby is hypocritical, David? Yes, yeah. I think you'd be right. Yeah. None more so than us. Exactly. Yeah, we're a hypocritical pod, uh, but we're also we're proud of it. No, like I said, I think he's an amazing player, I think he's a great player, and if he was to put on an English shirt and put on good performances, I would quickly change my tune and be that hypocrite myself.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

If Bernard Yansa van Rensburg leads us to another World Cup, I will I will make his passport for him.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

There we go. Lucky, lucky Bernhard Yanzer Van Rensburg to get an offer like that. Uh but yeah, I I agree. I thought Bristol maybe go as high as third gear in this game. They probably didn't need to go much further than that.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

They didn't they didn't really need to stretch themselves, but I think for for them it's just continuing on this run, keeping pressure on Exeter, keeping pressure on Tigers. Well, yeah, that's key. If they keep winning games, they make the top four. That's that's the long and short of it. So you know they're just gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

From a newcastle perspective as well, obviously they've announced this week their coaching ticket. Yeah. Uh Dan McFarland was, I think we one we mentioned quite a while ago as being in the running being confirmed. Guy who's got an impressive CV. Uh, say the bit of Ulster, hasn't he, recently? Yeah, a bit of Ulster. He's out in the J League in Japan. Uh, I can't remember the team he's managing, but I think they're in the running for kind of winning that competition. Highly thought of, so it's a good pickup by the Red Bulls. Do you think there is anything that that coaching ticket would be worried about or really happy about at this moment in time from Red Bulls?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

I think they've got so much player turnover at the moment. It's you're basically starting with a blank canvas in the summer, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah, yeah. I think I saw I saw some posts somewhere uh their predicted kind of 23 start of next season, and that's based off that it sounds like there's going to be more player announcements anyway, because they they alluded to before the game. I think they've got 25 incoming, and I think they haven't announced 25 signings yet. Um, so there's probably more on the way.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Um they've also got, by the sounds of things, a lot of very good youngsters coming through. I saw that they've got the highest contingent of players in England under 17s at the moment of any club, which is which is a great sign for them because I know that's obviously a big part of their um long-term planning. Um so as much as anything, you know, building those pathways and and making sure there's room for young players to come through is gonna be a part of this project for them.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah, I their academy has become a real focus for them. I don't know if you would have seen their some of their social stuff recently, but they've been really championing a lot of their youth work they're doing. They do lots of kind of uh different assessment days in different parts, and it's really quite impressive stuff, and that's gonna bear fruit. Um, so yeah, that's the Red Bull model, and we're gonna start seeing the benefits of that uh in the not too distant future, I imagine. But yeah, so the game ended. Remind me of the score, Rory. I haven't got the scores up in front of me right now.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Uh Red Bulls 19, Bristol 52.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

A happy day at the office for Bristol Bears, and you know, just another another learning session from for the Red Bulls getting used to being Red Bulls in the Prem. Moving on, Rory, to Saturday.

Saracens v Tigers Throwback Fight

SPEAKER_01 31:17

First game of the day. Let's go with a tasty, old-fashioned, bitter rivalry between the Saracens and Leicester Tigers. Not a high scoring affair, but it it threw up a real tight, feisty contest that kind of was a bit of a throwback, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

That was exactly the thought I had about this one. It was a real throwback kind of game. Um, pretty tense. Um, yeah, as you say, very, very physical, probably dominated as much by the defensive efforts of both teams as it was by any attacking efforts. Um, you know, I think one of the best games I've seen Mara Toge have for a long time. Yeah, yeah, in a club chef, for example. Really, really, you know, there was one moment where he catches um Moro in the corner and drags him off the drags him off the field, you know, with you know the try-line begging, and he catches him and gets it, you know. Moro's a big lad and he's a good player. And yeah, he actually manhandled him off the pitch. Um yeah, it was an interesting game this one. It starts off like an absolute freight train. Um so uh Hartley, uh whose first name obviously I can't remember. Ollie Hartley scores a lovely try sort of three minutes in. Um Charlie Bracken bounces nicely from off the side of the rug, commits the first defender, and Hartley just spots the gap between bodyguard and guard, glides through, and then steps Steward and Searle. Really well. I mean, for a tall lad, great bit of footwork.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

It's a lovely finish.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Yeah, it's a it's a really, really nice finish. Um, he's a player that you know we've talked about since we started this pod, really, as well. One keep an eye on. Um 24 now, so he's probably getting to the point where it's stick or twist. You know, is he is he actually going to fulfil that potential? Um on the strength of this performance, yeah. I think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Um simply put, I don't know. He's had quite a bad like injury run this season, which is why we've not seen as much of him as we would have liked.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Um yeah, he had a he had a serious injury in 2024, so I think that's that really scuppered things for a while. But he looks um I really like him.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

I think I think he's got some serious talent, and yeah, that's just what Saracens need, more young talent. I thought you just mentioned Charlie Bracken, just a thought that went through my head. If you were to pick a young English scrum half at the moment, if you're putting like a fantasy rugby thing, are you picking Charlie Bracken, Lucas Friday, or Archie McParland right now? I mean it's a tough decision because they're all they're all playing very well.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

They're all playing really well, and they all have slightly different games. I would on the strength of just their performances and I would probably just shade it to Charlie Bracken on the basis that I think he's the he's the out and out running threat. He's I think he's the threat with the with the ball at the base. But Archie McPahlan's probably got the most all-round game, he's definitely physically the biggest. Um no, Lucas Friday is I mean he's a fair bit younger than both of them. He's aged 18, isn't he?

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Um I think he's I think he's I think he's 19, but yeah, I'll double check.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

But he's got bags of potential, and he's you know, he's in a you gotta bear in mind he's playing in a quin side that is struggling, shall we say. Not pulling up. Um I mean it's pick your poison with those three, really. I mean, they're they're all really, really exciting young talents. You can probably pick him just on the strength of whatever game you want to play, really. If you're gonna play, you know, if you were Bristol, you'd probably pick Charlie Bracken.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Um Luckily, if you were Saints, you'd probably pick Archie McParland, which is quite which is lucky given that's where he is. But I think you know he's got a style of game very similar to Alex Mitchell in that sense. Um I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas Friday ended up being the best of the three in the end.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

But I've I've been impressed with Lucas Friday for for a while. I feel like he's got something about him that could take him on a couple of steps beyond. But we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

I I think it's really Lucas Friday could end up being the best of the three, but yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it could it hate. They could all be they could all end up world class.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

It's it's great that they're all young, talented, and playing regular rugby at the ages they are. Great, it's really great. Bow 12 for England rugby going forward, knowing that we've got this depth of that position, which I remember a time where it wasn't necessarily a position of strength. Uh, but yeah, bit got distracted there, just that that thought sprang across my mind as you spoke about Charlie Bracken. Uh yeah, I completely agree on Ollie Hartley, I can't completely agree on Maru Toshi. I think a number of the Saracens players really stood up, and I think one of the things I wanted to point out was this was a Saracens performance that was done without Tom Willis doing all the work because unfortunately for him he came off after ten minutes. Nathan Michelow came on, great game. Ben Earl, one of his best games in the Saracen shirt this season. Yeah, they're just really fronted up to what is a confrontational Leicester Tigers team.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Um I think the main, you know, look look at the Tigers pack. You've got Nikki Smith, Jamie Blumaier, Joe Hayes, Cam Henderson, Oli Chesham, Hanro Liebenberg, Joaquim Morrow, Ollie Cracknell. That is physical confrontational hard-nosed Tigers pack. Yeah um and they absolutely matched up to them. Um scrum time aside, I think scrum time too fair, tigers really had the measure of them.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Um, but that's not necessarily surprising. Weirdly, the scrum isn't actually really ever an area of strength of Saracens for the last few years.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

No, um they've not really been able to um impose themselves in that space. Considering they've got Reese Carey, um Richioni, who really struggled, uh I thought, at Scrum Time this week. It's a bit surprising. Uh whether it's just the mobile back row, I'm not sure whether that has a has a role in it at all. I think yeah, my only note on Leicester was it felt a bit like when I was watching this, they reverted to type, they weren't quite one out one out runners for quite a while.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Well, I did I did think that. I mean, this the Freddie Stewart try, I think, was a good example of it. They went really Route 1 for several phases, but then were able to get the ball to Billy Sell, who pretty sure cuts a lovely line, and Billy Sell makes the pass, you know, as as they do. Um but yes, I I I think they were I think they were probably shocked that they weren't getting more of a physical edge over Saracens. Um maybe not shocked, but you know, I think you know they would back themselves to physically impose them, impose their game on Saracen. Actually, where Tigers have been very good, is they've been cleverer with the ball uh in the um type phases, but that does tend to come off the back of getting defenses going backwards, and they just didn't get any change out of Saracens really today, um, bar in a couple of occasions. But yeah, I mean ultimately with a with a team like Leicester, if you can match them physically up front, you do somewhat nullify their uh tools because their their whole game plan is built on that kind of momentum that they get from hard-nosed carries.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yeah, you know. So to give a perspective at why that's so effective, is that when you're doing that and getting over the game line, you you suck defenders in because the people making the tackles can't then get back into the defensive line. So then it brings all the defenders in and it can make space out wide. The second Saracens are then stopping at the gain line, they're able to just cover those rucks with one-out players, and they can keep their defensive line really well spread and they can do their rush defence that they do quite well. And that's what stifled.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, there was no there was no space for Haskell Collins or Haymer Webb Radwine when he came on. Um Brize and Will Wand, neither of them really got any change. Or Lanett Bailey got got stuck having a sort of physical upfront battle with um with Hartley and Tomkins. Um, you know, and I think Saracen's by and large played the better rugby. I thought Max Malins was excellent.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

He's in this really come into form, I think. Uh he's the last few weeks, he's looked really good.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah, his um his tracking runs for breaks. You watch you watch the game, actually, how many times he was on the shoulder of a half break. You know, he was which is when he's at his best because he reads the game exceedingly well. But I think he's for a lot of the season he's not been really confident enough to follow the ball.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

At the start of the season, he had a really rubbish beard. Ever since he shaved that beard off, he's been playing so much. Exactly. That's what's been the difference. So but I he started off the season, uh, and I'm sure he'd admit this himself. He was pants. Uh, he was you he was the source of a lot of the errors that Saracens were kind of dealing with. But he's definitely turned his game around now because he looks like the player we knew and loved from a couple of seasons ago.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

I thought he was absolutely superb. I think um Ratimi Shagan has been impressive all season. I think he's been one of Saracens' leading lights this season. One of the unsung heroes. Um yeah, you know, he's not um he's not he's not a uh a player who's like who's ever gonna go beyond playing really good club rugby, but you know, that's okay, that's way better than most people ever do. That's not a slight. Yeah, but what I mean by that is he's you know he's a really good club player. And this season, his his work with balling traffic, he's really good, he balls the ball, you know, punches well above his weight when he carries the ball into contact. Um, and then if you give him space, he's got footwork in tow to burn as well. So he's you know he's been excellent for them. And I think we probably just have to return to talking about another a young man again. I wondered how just Noah Caluri's finish.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

That that presence of mind to so he made the break, he did that kind of little chip ahead, and then the presence of mind is like to leave the field of play, then jump in to give himself that that angle of momentum, so then he wasn't able to be pushed out by I can't remember it was Oli it was Hassel Collins, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Haswell Collins, yeah. Oli Hassel Collins, who's not a bad defender and a big lad himself.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Haswell Collins, probably 6'2, 6'3 wiener, um, probably 15 stone, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

You know, wasn't wasn't able to shove him off off his line.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

So no, I mean we've talked that we that he's Clurry looks really solid, and that finish, you know, I think moving him on from being not he was never a one-trick pony, but he was being used a bit like a one-trick pony at the start of the season because he was so stark, how how um how much better in the air he was than everywhere else. Since then, everyone's sort of worked out trash to defend that, and I think the aerial the aerial game in in in the game in general has become less effective than it was at the start of the season, which England found obviously to their um demise in the Six Nations. I think now Noah Kaluri, probably with the benefit of just spending more time on the training pitch, more time working with players like Malins, Elliot Daly, Ratim Shagan, you know, Cinti. Yeah, um, just being around top-level coaches, being in that environment, you can see all the strings to his bow really coming to the fore, and that you know that kind of individual finish is it's gonna be worth its weight of gold to in terms of you know pushing his case for international honours because it's all one and good being great in a tactical structure, you have to do that to thrive at international level. But if you really want to stand out and you really want to grab a shirt and keep hold of it at international level, you need to be able to bring an individual magic to it. Um, if he can do that as well as fulfill the kind of tactical elements of that game, which is the obviously the kick and chase, he's he's gonna be well in the running for a for a call-up sooner rather than later. Um, and his you know, his carrying in contacts as well is really impressive.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Yeah, yeah. He doesn't take a step back, and I think his defensive reading and his his presence in the defensive line has improved a hell of a load as well. Like, yeah, fair play to the lad, and you know, 18 tries in nine prem games, like that that won't go unnoticed. Um, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

I mean he could have had another one, it got chalked off for um a knock-on during the move. Yeah um off a Michelow break. You know, but it was another acrobatic finish. You know, I don't I don't know the legality exactly of some of the style of these acrobatic finishes, but it's lovely to watch someone sort of yeah one dive it over again. It's all doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 43:14

There's no there's no jumping into a tackle unless it looks spectacular when you're putting the ball down, when it's absolutely Yeah, you can only jump into a tackle if it looks cool when you score a try. Hey, I'm on board, I'm on board with that. But ultimately ultimately this this game was down to the the brute in the packs and the physicality of it, and it it was ultimately won on the day by Saracens. We said last week in the predictions that if Saracens had any realistic want or hope to progress to the top four, they had to win this game, and they did.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Yeah, there were some big moments in that. You know, Tigers knocked on twice in the red zone in the second half, yeah. Um, you know, under under pressure. Um Saracen's defended a five meter line out mall, which was well set. It wasn't like it was a poorly set mall. Saracen's just fronted up and defended it. Um you know, they had a couple of bins. Um, but it ends, you know, Theobert Farland strips the ball for the win. I think he strips it off Will Heard, maybe, or Charlie Clare was it. I think it was one of the first words, yeah. Um, but it was just a sign of real desire um from Saris, a real desperation in defence. You could tell how much it meant to them to win this game. It's almost like it was a final for them, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. Um, and you know, when Saris get in that kind of mood, they are pretty indomitable, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Saris on Saris in Fine Fettle are a tough nut to crack. And yeah. Um it'll be interesting to see how they develop because with all the young players they've got, if those young players buy into that kind of ethos and that that dogged style with some of the lethal weapons they got, they like I know I know Saracens aren't the force they have been right now, but they could certainly turn into something really quite exciting uh for the league um going forwards. So yeah, fair play to Saracens coming out. I think it was 1915 uh that game ended. It was, yeah. So close one. Uh Leicester probably kicking themselves with kind of the top two playing each other that we touched on in a bit. That it was a chance for them to close the gap. Uh but Saracens, again, another game we'll touch on later, really giving them a shelf a shot at top four now because that race is getting mighty interesting. Yeah.

Quins v Sale Try Fest That Dragged

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Um on the flip side of mighty interesting, the next game I've dubbed the Who Cares Derby between Harlequins and Sail Sharks.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Uh well I'll tell you who didn't care, Quinn's fans, because they didn't bloody go.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Like I I sympathise with Quinn's fans because they they they've not had a very nice season. They've not had a very nice couple of seasons. Um and it's really hard for them to feel motivated to turn up. Uh saw that I'm guessing you've seen the message that Joe Marler sent out where he went went to the stoop for the first time, and he's like, oh, he he wasn't impressed from his experience of going back to the club that he's you know, very vocal, and the fact that he doors it. It must be hard turning up as a Quins fan at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

I think it's pretty bleak as a Quins fan at the moment. Um, and so this game, Quinn's 33, sales 52. You'd so obviously another defeat for Quinn's.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

And you could be forgiven for thinking on the strength of that score line. This must have been an absolute humdinger. You'd be surprised how poor this game was to watch.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Um yeah, how it happens.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

It was I don't know what it was. I mean, for this many trials one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen tries in this game, and I was thoroughly bored watching it. It's it's difficult to put my finger on exactly why.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Could it be the fact there's it's cause it did mean nothing? Does that is that an angle that could play a part in it?

SPEAKER_00 46:46

No, because I've watched plenty of meaningless rugby, and it's well, and as a Gloucester fan, there is something on the game. Many of our games are meaningless in in many ways.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

Um that wasn't the angle I was taking.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

I was talking about the uh the race for seventh. Um yeah, well, you know, there there are things to play for at the bottom of the table. It's not it's quite as tangible as a top four or a or to win the league or anything like that, but you know, there are obviously things on the cards. Um, I don't know why it was quite so bad to watch.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

It just um neither side inspires at the moment, and neither side seems to be playing a cohesive brand of rugby. So it it it it falls down to it's just the skills were bad, Dave.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

They were really bad. The the first half, I just just watched it just like these two teams that don't know that they've got the ball in their hands. But it was just poor to watch. Um, yeah, I can't really give you much more positivity on it about on that. I mean, I would say um Petty, an excellent game for Quinn's. He was he was really, really good. Um for sale. Um I thought uh Dugdale was very good. Um Seb Kelly, who we spoke about with Mark a little while ago, got his debut. Um didn't look out of place at all.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

No. Um Oli Davis had a nice stint off the bench as well.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Um yeah, I think he's another one who I think's got a really bright future. Uh I think it's is it Archie Longstaff or Alfie Longstaff? Alfie Longstaff, yeah. Alfie Longstaff.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Um he had a really young front row, didn't they?

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Um McEkrid and McKeekrin Longstaff at a poker for sure. Yeah. Um and then replaced by Ona Senja, Kane and Harper. I will say actually the six sail front rowers were all very, very good. Ona Sena had a really barnstorming run in the second half that was lovely to watch. He's he's got um he he's got real power in him. You know, he looks he looks like he could be quite a handful. Um Harper gets a double, you know, always nice for a tight head. Um Longstaff backed himself a try as well. I thought it, you know, I thought I think he was really busy, and I I thought um, you know, there was some some positives for them on that. But the the game itself was just really guttering. Um and a lot of the tries, you know, I mean they were just breaks off turnovers or yeah, just moments. You know, normally it would be quite entertaining, but it in the end it was just a bit like, geez, can someone keep hold of a ball for three phases? Um yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, it's you're you're you're right that you know there wasn't there's not a load run in this game beyond sort of pride and um getting to the champions cup, obviously, which is which is obviously important for both teams. But yeah, it felt two s like two sides that are really lacking in confidence and kind of lacking in quality, really.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

Um I I feel like we've um over the last few weeks analysed and stuck the bootin' a fair bit on both these sides. So I I propose that we just chalk this one off as one not not necessarily for the ages. Say will be happy with a bonus point win. Harlequins will, you know, be happy with a bonus point, you know, in general. And uh these are two sides that just will be really looking forward to this at this season to end so they can we've given it more interest than the crowd at the game gave it that way. There we go, there we go. Uh we've done our bit, we've done our bit for the sport. Uh next game, Rory.

Saints v Bath Classic With Soft Edges

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Northampton Saints versus Bath. Top two teams at the table. Tell me your thoughts. Pitted against each other. Um it was always an interesting one because I saw the bath line up and I thought, hmm. So they did the heavy rotation as I anticipated, but my mind swung back to when we did the exact same thing in round ten or nine, where we sent a rotated squad to the wreck and we took the victory there. So I was like, hang on, are they trying to you know get their own return the favour? And um well, for me, Rory, it was it was an absolute feast for the eyes. It was beautiful to watch Bath in full flow with a fly half who plays exciting rugby, because you know, we haven't seen much of that this season. Uh I thought Donahue showed exactly why we were waxing lyrical about him last season. He's he's got he's got a serious eye for a pass, a serious eye for a gap, and it genuinely seems like a real excitement, considering he's spent I think it was like 250 odd days injured, and he's come back into that being his first game and that that performance. I'm not saying drop Finn Russell for him, but he's he's I'd want him to have more rugby. Um if he if that's his level, considering day one back. Um a number of the Bath players really impressed me. I think Hennessy on the wing, really dangerous, really, really good. Miles Reed, we've we've spoken enough about Miles Reed, he was phenomenal. Um there's a reason he got man of the match despite Bath losing this game. Spoiler alert, Bath still lost, even though I've started off praising Bath. Um I'm not gonna sit here and say Saints went into it complacently, thinking uh Bath have sent the kids and the reserves. But I I'm still I still haven't seen Saints since the Six Nations break click, but they still keep winning in the league. I I know they lost to Bath, but in the Champions Cup.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Well they were saying on the comms, you're averaging shipping something like 30 points a game at the moment in the last like brief. And it's your your pack is really having to work overtime to overcome that.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

Yeah, thankfully the attack is very effective in this overtime, and I'm hopefully it's getting paid very little.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

It's been a few opportunities in these in this game, though. It's been two or three big opportunities in the red zone in the first half.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Yeah, um we left definitely two, three tries out there quite comfortably, if not more. I also thought a couple of players really did not have good games. I think it wasn't George Hendley's finest game. He was a weakness we've spoken about in the past is like under the high ball, I think it was a bit exposed yet again. Um and Carl Smith, the nine who came on for Vander Linda, who went off after his fantastic try, really seemed to target that. And it's something that's been I think developing as a frailty in the Saints games. I do not feel comfortable when the ball's in the air. It just doesn't feel like it's a sure thing that Saints regather the ball, unless it's Tommy Freeman. I just did with Slight Tom and Hendy, I did not feel comfortable with them being on the receiving end, and that kind of proved true a couple of times, and like Will Muir and Hennessy were able to get well above them.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Uh yeah, it's interesting when we say it's because you know I would point to Slight Home's try about 20 minutes in where the the handling is unreal. You know, the quick hands from Smith Passy, the catch pass right across the flat of the line is unreal and unmatched by any other team in the league. Um the Freeman trying about half an hour, where you go basically coast to coast, you get a turnover pretty much on the try line, and slight home breaks, Bayless does really well to catch him, and you play right and Freeman Freeman runs it in. Um you know you've still got that kind of uh that kind of play so in the locker, and you know, Saints is absolutely capable of of make a score from anywhere absolutely ability to score from anywhere, yeah, exactly. But I think I don't know if maybe the messaging from Lee Radford's wearing a bit thin or he's it doesn't he because he's Scotland bound, so yeah, whether that's part I I it feels like defence isn't number one on the agenda at the moment. Um which I would point to uh Arthur Green's try. That's a nice scrum and a wraparound play, but it's really soft defence from Lichfield and Slight Home. Who are two players who should do better? Big lads, and they really weak defence from them. Um Car Smith's try, it's you know, I it's but what Bath do, it's big big forward carries that narrow up the defence, but you know, it's not the premier Bath pack, and you were getting kind of muscled by them. Yeah, you know, the two bossing tries are saying muscled.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

I I generally thought based off of kind of the Champions Cup quarter final where Saints really fronted up and met Bath's kind of starting pack really well. I really thought it was gonna be an area we were gonna dominate. We didn't, we didn't in the scrum time or at the breakdown. Um no uh line out was really fragile and too many over there.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

I think the set piece is looking a bit fragile in general, if I'm honest. So um you know, you and I don't know you're missing obviously Trevor Big Trev and you know Curtis Landon's obviously a big Alex Cole's missing as well, it's a big part as well. I think well Alex Cole's is missing, but Lockett and Prouse shouldn't and Van Der Mesh and Diminish you in the power department at Van Der Mesh is focused on his kicking at the moment, Rory. All right. I do want to talk about that. Um I don't because it's how he got injured. I know, but that's what I want to talk about. But to to come back to Saints more generally, um, you know, it can't point to lots of poor performances in it. I think you know you're right with Endy's performance wasn't great. You know, I thought Lockett and Prowse were both pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um carry really well. Um I think the background general were good. Pollock again with some magic moments, and then sometimes I feel like he's drifting out of games a bit. Do you get the sense? He's he's capable of the magic moment, and he does the magic moment, and then sometimes I feel like he's not doing so much of the nitty-gritty stuff that keeps you in a game, but he's waiting for the next opportunity to make a magic moment. Jones, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sometimes he does it it feels like he's lingering for something that may not be on the whether that's him waiting on the wing for a turnover or he's waiting on the fringes of a ruck and then the next ruck, you wait on the fringes and the next ruck just to spot. But is that just effective back row play, just timing your intervention?

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Possibly it is, and maybe when you've got Graham and Kemeny, you can afford to do that because they can cover kind of the rest of the work rate. But sometimes I just think you know, you're you're a great tackler and you're a great ball carrier, rather than waiting for the magic moment when you can carry the ball in massive space and make a big break, and rather than being you know, hanging around for the for the turnover at the ruck, actually, could you do could you be doing more in between those magic moments to affect the game? Um and you know, I might not be right on this, you know. I I I totally accept that I might be picking holes where I don't need to, but part of me was watching it feeling like he's at best potentially the best player on the pitch is at times looking a bit peripheral because he's waiting for a magic moment that Bath aren't really affording him. And if they if the opposition's not affording you the opportunity to make the magic moment, you need to be involved in the rest of the game to force the magic moment. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 57:57

I I could I get it, I I do get that, and I do also I I can see where you get that view from. But you know, I'm a I'm a stat-based man. Stats wise, he's done he had the second most carries of any Saints player, fourth most tackles, second most defenders beaten, second most offloads, joint first, no joint second most clean breaks. So obviously he's he has been busy, but I do understand why you would have that perception if you were to watch him. Um and he does I do think where it's a growing part of his game, he does seem to get a bit distracted with almost like the politics game of a ref. Yeah, the touch judges he does spend probably a bit too much time for my liking communicating more with them than he does his teammates. I think there was one moment where Ed Prouse grabbed him and said, get stuck in, Henry, because he was too busy chatting to the ref. Um so I that's kind of creeping into his game a little bit as well. But uh some may argue that that's part of his game is to try and get the ref on side, because then if he builds that good rapport, he can get turnovers when they're a little bit on the line, maybe sometimes. But it's a tricky one, like he still had a good game. I agree. Most of the Saints plays out of game, and when I say Hendy didn't have his best game, he still had okay moments. It's just there was conceded four turnovers, most of that being in the high in the high ball when you're fullback. That needs to be your brand. Um like as much as this is about Saints getting the win, and it's very against my run of form, but I think this game should be more about credit to Bath putting on a real strong performance.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

I I thought they were lovely to watch. Um I really enjoyed it. You know, were were excellent um with the ball in hand.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

Um it is the most I've enjoyed watching Bath this season, and I'm not saying that purely to try and cement my argumentative points around Finn Russell, but genuinely it was the most enterprising and the most attack-minded performance I've seen from them in the Prem this season. Um because I don't know, maybe it's the player selection, maybe they just knew that they didn't really have anything to lose. Because I think they arguably they've got a moral victory from this because their second team ran the Saints A team close at Franklin's Gardens. It you could argue that's a moral victory for Bath. Um, and I don't know, it's just yeah, they were really entertaining to watch, and credit to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

And um there they're another side who you know I hate to have to admit it, but some of the youngsters they got coming through. I'm just I'm really excited to watch play. Arthur Green and Richards are two players that we've we've spoken about. A lot of them, and they've got they've got plenty more. Yeah, um Verdon, the tight head. I didn't see much of it. I think he's been injured for quite a while from what they were saying on comms. Yeah, he looks like a good young man. He was solid. Yeah, really solid. Lovely shape on him for a tight edge, just sort of textbook tight edge shape.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

I I would I would I would I would hasten the he is 27, so he's not one of the oh maybe he's just peripheral. He's been a peripheral squad guy who hasn't been he's been quite unlucky, not really getting opportunities. Right. And he's kind of always been like second fiddle to Stuart and um the toy, and then obviously Sellers come along, so this is kind of a chance for him to get a bit of game time. He's he's the sort of player who I wouldn't be surprised. He'll either stick with Barth for his career because he enjoys the environment, or he'll make a move at some point very soon to try and get his shot at first team rugby because off of that performance.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

On the strength of that performance, I would say there's a player in there worth worth someone taking a punt on. Sure. Um I was excited.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

Sam Winters, who they had to the bench, was a 19-year-old. There's quite a little buzz around him last year. I was I was hoping he got more than two minutes. We weren't able to get unfortunately we weren't weren't get weren't given much of a show, but he's potentially a name to listen out for in the future. Back three player winger, yeah. Back three player. I think he I think he can also operate in the centres, but you'll probably winger back three uh in the start of his career.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Apoco Gianfi, I I I feel bad because it was a penalty.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

It was, it was a penalty, like you can't deny that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

But no, but he's unfortunate because I don't think he's aimed for the high shot, and I don't think he's aimed for a swinging arm. I think he's aimed for a physical shot, and he's just got it, he's he's got his angles slightly wrong, and he's unfortunately connected with the head. In when he I I don't get I didn't get the impression watching it that that was close to his intention. Uh obviously, yeah, he wouldn't want to give away a penalty, but it wasn't like uh um I don't think it was even particularly poor technique, I think it was just a bit unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

It's the sort of tackle where I wouldn't be surprised if you were to freeze frame every single tackle in every single game. There's probably 10 of those in every game. And if it's not the final tackle in the final moment that's deciding whether a game is won or lost or drawn, probably wouldn't be reviewed by a TMO.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

So yeah, the brain of Saints fans. Um but I mean I think he's um he's look he looks like a player who is rapidly shedding his puppy fat and looking like a potential real athlete, um, obviously in the Italian setup already. I thought compared to when I first saw him for the under 20s, when he was probably 18 or 19, when he looked like to be honest, he looked like me when I was playing like under sixes, rugby, just overweight, biggest kid on the pitch kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, he now looked uh like me playing for the Lions, like a true athlete and leader. True leader, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um no, I th I think he I think he looks like a player who is filling out into what could be a really effective athlete.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

Yeah, I I I anticipate him being in the full into Italy squad possibly as soon as next year's Six Nations.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

Well, we've seen we've seen multiple instances where those big tight head locks, especially when they're getting intercepts and leathering the ball down the field to the detriment of their own hamstrings, David.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

Yeah, that was it was it was one of those moments where it was pure joy and bliss from you can see he's he just got the ball. Then it's that age-old thing where you get a you you get a forward in the loose and they don't have to be able to get the ball. You have to, David. He had to do it. It's just the fact he's injured himself from that, where it's just it's so frustrating that a player like.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:06

If you think if his leg had fallen off, it would have been worth it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

Yeah, true. But like the way he plays, like, he runs into three tacklers every time he carries it, and the one thing that takes him down is him trying to kick the ball when there's no one around him. Um yeah. Oh yeah, so it's it's frustrating. I hopefully that doesn't I don't know the extent of the injury. I'm hoping it's not season done, but it would be really almost ironic if that's that did end his season. Um yeah. But oh well, it was a lovely it was a lovely break, lovely bit of soft hands. And just when you see him run and he holds that rugby ball, it just makes it look so small. Um as you understand, as a man of uh as a man with a certain sized hand, yes, yeah, to my own detriment. Yeah, yeah, yes, absolutely. But yeah, great game of rugby. I was 44-41 to Saints in the end, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

No, not quite. That was what you predicted. It was 41-38.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

Oh, I wasn't far off, was I? You weren't far off, to be fair. Uh no, 44-41 was the Champions Cup quarter final score. That's why I went for that, because it was the opposite way round. Um, yeah. Okay.

Gloucester Shock Exeter And Scrap Late

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

I've avoided it long enough, Rory, but now is your chance to finally talk positively about a Gloucester performance. Because if you don't, I don't know what's wrong with you. Because we won.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

Where did this come from? I do not know or care. I loved this game so much. Gloucester's so good. We were phenomenal. It's to say it was our best performance of the season is not doing it justice. It's better than all of our other performances combined cumulatively. By some bloody distance. Um, you know, and it started off so badly. Um, Vincent scoring, yeah, uh Ben Lodan misses the box kick, falls to Fizzelow, offflows to Paul Brown Bampu, draws and passes, put Vincent in in the first minute, and I'm sat there with the old man oh for God's sake, this is gonna be such a long two hours. But it wasn't because we go back up the other end of the pitch. Um it was uh Saki Sev Atkinson and Ben Loder get breaks, all find space, really aggressive clear-outs in the breakdown, and Max Fuelen uh finishes through three tacklers. Great, we're back in the game. You're suddenly thinking, well, that came out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

That looked like last season a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Yeah, that looked good, but you know, it won't carry on like that extra to go back to the endfield and put and score now. And then we just sort of kept the ball and kept attacking so well. We were brilliant. Like we should have scored more tries.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

Um the ball retention was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

The way the way the bait the ball retention you had.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:39

Yeah, compared to last week against Bristol, where we couldn't string three passes together in this in this game. We would we just look like we looked like a team that had actually played with a ball in his hands for once. Um obviously the return of Thomas Williams is was massive.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

Huge game.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:55

He was just phenomenal. Um just the the temple, I mean, the pass he threw off his left for Will Joseph for a witch, yeah. That just the thread in the needle pass sort of in between sort of three defenders perfectly into into his running path. It's I mean, world world class, if anything was world class, yeah. That kind of pass is so difficult to actually do. Yeah, yeah. Um, he's he scores on the uh 22nd minutes, a really good attack again. Big Arthur Clark carrying really well in the tight spaces, getting go forward, and he snipes. Um, you know, there's some good sort of deceptive running off the ball when he snipes in the gap and finishes in the corner. And then two minutes later, Ben Loader, who had by some distance his best game for Gross. Some game. He was he electric. I mean, we knew we were signing a player, and obviously injuries have really robbed us of um seeing what what he can do for most of the season. He was just brilliant. I mean, I don't know how many defenders he beat, but it doesn't do justice for the way that he beat them because a lot of them were beaten by just being bounced off him.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

Yeah, 12 defenders beaten, like hitting double digis in defenders beaten stat in one game is is rare. Uh so yeah, Fair Put any three clean breaks, uh 160 metres. Like that's huge.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

That's huge for a wing up. He it was incredible. Um, and you know, for Matt Holy's second try, breaks down the left, gets through two weak tackles, and offloads really, really well. Um Manny Fever Boto also he was probably Chief's shining light in this one after last week, where we thought he was pretty poor.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:35

To be to be fair, he on on the stat book, he actually outshone loader, he did 178 metres and he beat 13 defenders.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

But yeah, uh yeah, he was he was really really good for Chiefs. Um he was a constant threat, um, particularly when uh poor old Keelan got stuck on and uh defended him on the wing and went down to several more injuries as we're wont to do. Um but um no, so he scores a really good try. Actually, Chiefs were really stuttering with the ball in hand, and actually in the lead up to this try, they were they were pretty stuttering with the ball in hand. He just put out nowhere, didn't he? Really? It just out of nowhere suddenly found space down the left, and Fabewest just finished really well. I mean, you could you can make loads of cases for things that Gross could have done better in offence, but at some point you just have to say he's bloody hard to tackle.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:19

Yeah, yeah. There's a reason he's hard. There's a reason he makes so many meters and beat beats so many defenders, is because he is just a physical freak that bounces off anyone from low to the ground as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:31

It's just yeah. Um yeah. And then so again, you know, at that point you're thinking 1912, whatever it was, you know, you think oh, this could be we're never gonna hold on to this later. And then my actual hero of the day, Will Trenum, who was and I I've actually he's one of the players I've actually taught quite positively, quite consistently through the season, because I think he's he's grasping his opportunity to play first team prem rugby because he wasn't really getting that at Quinn's, and he's obviously a player with real physical ability, he's a big lad, he's tall, he's played on the seventh circuit, you know, he is mobile. Um, for whatever reason, it wasn't happening at Quinn's. And he was a pickup by Gloss last summer that compared to our other signs really went under the radar. He felt like a squad filler, didn't he? Felt like a squad filler. Um, and through injury opportunities and form and whatever else, he he's had his opportunity uh throughout the season, and he's been one of our few shining lights in terms of the commitment that he's he's brought to the brought to the game. Um, and in this game he really got his rewards. Um really good finish for his first to um pick and go off to Boston Winner Scrum penny. By the way, how good was our scrum?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

So good, so so good. And I mean like I know we I know we said the other week about Fasogbon kind of maybe focusing too much on scrum time and not on his work rate. He had a bloody good game uh at scrum time and was all over the park.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

Yeah, this was his best game for some time as well. He's again his scrum's been pretty good through the season, absolutely dominant in this against you know the Chief Scrum is more than capable of um being a handful. You know, Will Goodrick Clark is bloody enormous, you know. Goodrick Clark, Dweber, Yusepha Scott. That's a huge front row.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

Yeah, that's a front row we put out to not go backwards, but yeah, and they went in one direction, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:15

Yeah, Val and Afo absolutely dominated in this one. And I'll I would also say Jack Inhard. Jack Inhard a really good game. Um shaky start to the season, but really struggled at the start of the season, probably when to be honest, when Skibs wasn't on the training paddock and we weren't we clearly weren't coaching our setp's you know, paired out to now. Where you know at the start of the season you'd have thought Jack Innard couldn't hit a cow's ass with a banjo out. His his darts are spot on. You know, I don't think I'm not sure we lost a single lineup, maybe one or I don't recall you losing one, but you bite off yeah. Really, really solid in the air. Um, which compared again compared to the start season, complete chalk and cheese. Yeah. Uh you know, we we probably um leave two or three tries out there at halftime. So it's 26-12 at halftime. We probably we certainly should have scored just before half time. We butchered one right at the end on the try line. Um, but you know, we weren't I wasn't gonna quibble about it 26-12.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:13

No, you're ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:14

Yeah. Um, and then you know, Chiefs come back into it pretty quickly. Fizzelau scores off to 44 minutes or something like that. Um, Stephen Varney bounces, obviously Gloucester alumni. Um the ball, there's an offload that gets batted back by Seb Atkinson. It looks like a knockout, but it actually comes off um comes off Saki. Manny gathers it and breaks. Just George Button does really well to haul him down before the try-line, but they're in behind and they get it to Fizzler who scores under the posts. Um and you know, quite early on in the second half, and again it felt it felt like uh-oh, here we go again. Here we go again. Um, but no, we go we we do, you know, we we get control of the game again, I would say, mostly through our set piece dominance. Um, and we'll try and guess his second in what I would say was you know fairly classic from him from this game, just really powerful in the tight and finishes it off really well. Um, you know, him and Ben Loder just had absolute wordies today on this day, and you know, sort of came out of nowhere, but not going to complain about it. No, no, I wouldn't um we're still I think we're still pretty guilty of being inaccurate with the ball at times. I think we got a bit flash at times and started trying to throw a lot of out the backs and throwing mad off at my old man was going mad about it. Um it was quite funny, but uh you know we were we were being a bit flash, I think possibly just I think the positive positivity of it sort of probably got to our heads a bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

Oh my god, we're brilliant again.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:44

Um Harlem Globe prior time, yeah. Um but no Treno gets his try off the back of a massive line out mole. Um and then uh it starts to look like it's gonna unravel pretty quickly. Um Dylan Blula gets uh Simbin four seconds after being on the pitch by sacking a line out and get a penalty try, um, which was probably fair. What wasn't fair was uh Matt Carly giving Henry Slades try. Um how he can say that he saw that ball on the floor, there's no way because it was clearly held up on the camera, but obviously not conclusive enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:20

Yeah, that's um I I think that was poor from Carly. Um I guess I guess the problem is if he stated that he seen it on the ground, I I wonder what he's seen because I I couldn't see anything that suggested anything clearly.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:33

And also, he says he's seen it on the ground, he blows his whistle, then goes digging, then says he's seen it on the ground. So he's blown his whistle, so the play's over.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:40

Yeah, Gloucester players have stopped competing, stopped trying to stop the ball from being grounded. Yeah, it didn't feel it doesn't feel quite right, and I can understand had the result gone the other way, we're probably talking a lot more about that particular point in the game.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

Uh yeah, that would have been a real because we because they shouldn't have been down there anyway, because they got given a scrum penalty, they shouldn't have been given. Um, because they definitely stepped out the way and it went against us. Yeah. Um and but yeah, at that point it's really shaky 34-31. Um, Charlie Atkinson has a really good moment where he gets a turnover off another Manifoa Boso break that probably just about saved the game for us. Um, but the real moment of saving the game for us was Ethan Roots losing his head and punching Jack Inhard in the face, which really helped us out at that point. So the game off.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

That certainly does help uh close a game out. Uh I don't know what he's thinking. Um, he's clearly thick. He's clearly thick. That's the only explanation. Unless you know, but my only theory is that you know, obviously Jack Inhard was X to X to Chief. Maybe he owes him money. I don't know. Maybe that's why he left.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:47

Uh maybe possible, but he cost his team because they had they had the ball and they had penalty um advantage. Yeah, yeah. Last player of the game, and so they uh they would have a really good opportunity to have won it or drawn it, and uh now he punches Jack in over the face and loses it for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:05

Yeah, um absolutely maybe he's got an early summer holiday booked because that'll be his season done, surely. Um I don't see also, yeah. That's that's that's yeah. Bizarre for a player who was having one of his better seasons for a couple of years now. Yeah, what a lovely way to really put a dampener on that for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:25

Um I mean I'm I'm off a lot of the social medias at the moment, but uh I gathered from my brother that some of the um comments from extra Chiefs fans were less than positive.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:36

I can imagine, and I wouldn't blame them. So uh and I imagine his teammates probably behind closed doors will be seething and probably asking.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

So they'll be doubly annoyed because he's got a uh black belt in judo, so they can't even do anything about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:50

That is the problem, that is the problem, because he's not really one you're gonna pick a fight with. Um yeah, it's just stupid. Plain just thick, as you say. But it does mean, Rory, not only did Gloucester get the win, but it has blown the doors open for that top four race now because that that battle between Exeter, Bristol, and Sarries in fourth, fifth, and sixth has become mighty interesting.

Top Four Run In Gets Spicy

SPEAKER_00 1:17:11

Yeah, well, you know, to for any listeners who've not seen the table, so in third place you got Tigers on 52 points, in fourth place you got Chiefs on 49, in fifth place you got Bristol on 48, and in sixth place you got Saracens on 42. And coming up in uh not this weekend, so this weekend is Champions Cup, but the weekend after. Tigers are playing Saints at Welford Road, Mattioli Woods at Welford Road. Thank you. Bristol playing Saracens at Ashton Gate, and Chiefs are hosting Bath in Sandy Park. Three really, really interesting matchups. Which also means Gloucester are at home to Sale and Newcastle are at home to Quinns. So the next weekend of Prome Games, which is the weekend after this, is five bloody interesting matches. About bloody time, Rory. We have some bloody time indeed. Bloody interesting games.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:05

Oh, wet's the appetite. We just need to get through this uh boring weekend of European rugby that no one cares about.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:11

Oh, just just two semi-finals to bloody watch and rubbish. Um, but yeah, no, look, from from my point of view, as a Gloucester fan, best weekend of the season so far for me to watch. Uh, War Treno, well-deserved man of the match. Uh, tops the tackle charts with 18 and the carry charts of 22. I saw monumental. I mean, outrageous, outrageous levels. Um, and I don't know if it's Chris Boyd's influence or just the fact that all our coaches are back on the paddock. Who knows? Don't know what it is, don't care. But if it's if we're going in that direction, I'm gonna be happy.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:46

Well, you know how sometimes players play for their position, sometimes coaches coach for their position. Chris Boyd's looking at everything, so maybe maybe it is a bit of that. But yeah, great. And it was a great game to round off the weekend um what of what was a really, really good weekend of Prem Rugby. Uh thank you, Prem Rugby, for delivering after what has been a relatively dour couple of rounds recently.

Team Of The Week Picks

SPEAKER_01 1:19:09

Now, Rory, I know you've got a team of the week you want to put to me, uh, so I'm going to invite you to present your team of the week to me and I'll let you know how wrong or right you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:18

Yeah. Uh I've resisted the urge to put 15 Gloucester players in it.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:22

Very brave of you. Well done.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:24

There are a few though. Uh I've gone for in the loose set position, Valra Pavaraskin. Okay. And in the tighter position, Afa Fazotbom.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:33

You know, when you start off by saying I've not named uh 15 Gloucester players, you don't then. But the first two are Gloucester players, yes. But I don't think they can be argued with. I'm struggling to think of another. I'm not gonna suggest James Harper at sale for scoring two tries because he plays for sale and that game was boring. Um no, I can't think of another prop. The Tigers props are were pretty good at uh, but I'd I'd say the the work rate of Big Val and Afo just around the park, not just at the set piece, probably sets them apart this week. So yeah, I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

Uh a hooker I've gone for long stuff sale. Um yeah, even though it was boring. Um he I I did think he was particularly good for sale, and to be honest, there wasn't another hooker performance that really I mean, Dan Frost arguably, but um relatively anonymous by his standards, but yeah it was shon it was outshot by others, I'd say. Yeah, so for me, for me, Longstaff was the pick of the hookers.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:31

Yeah, okay. I'll I'll allow it. I'll allow it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:33

In the second row, I've gone for Lockett and Atoje.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:36

Thank you. Uh Lockett was the one that I was hoping to hear. Um Atoji, yeah, I think it was definitely one of Atoji's best game in the South Asset. Lockett had some he's quickly becoming a very reliable, very dependable member of that Saints team. You can remind me why they he did kind of get called into the England squad uh not that long ago using the nays. Yeah, you can see why they like him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I completely agree. Um maybe in the Bristol game, I think James Dunn had quite a good game, but no, I'm happy, I'm happy. I'm not gonna contest.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:09

Yeah, I he did have a good game, James Dunn, but it wasn't in the same levels, toughest of arenas, if that's fair. That's fair. Um at Blind Side, I've gone for Petty. I think it was brilliant for Quinn's best, probably his best game for since he got in a Quinn's shirt.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:27

Um I've tempted by Kemini, um, but I just thought yeah, I just thought in the end I thought Petty was probably the most influential.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:35

I would go Bayless personally, purely for his chase back on Slight Home. Uh anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:38

Yeah, it's not a bad shout. Yeah, you could you could definitely make the case of Bayless. Oh, I'll swap Bayless in, fine. Bayless in for Petty.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:45

Yeah, because I say if we base it off of the uh gauntlet of the environment that the teams are playing at, the stoop ain't one of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:52

No, that's true. That's that's a fair shout. Yeah, we'll go Bayless. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, okay. Um Miles Reed. Yeah. Easy. Brilliant. Just brilliant. He's just been consistently brilliant all season. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're eight this week, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:06

Can't I cannot disagree.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:08

No. Uh not to continue that theme, but at nine I've got Tomos.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:11

Yeah, I that's probably fair. I think Harry Randall, again, I I uh I accept the the opposition factor. I thought Harry Randall had a really good game, Bristol. Um, but yeah, can't really to be fair. Tom Carlsmith for Bath Tom Carl Smith was good, yeah. Um had to be. He was brilliant. Yeah. He's found his kicking boots as well, which is nice because they've been missing for most of the season.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:34

Yeah. In the centres, I've gone for Hartley and Bernard Jansen van Rensberg. Yeah, yeah, I can yeah, I'm yeah, I'm happy with that. I'm not gonna contest. Um, and then wings was obviously a difficult, it was hard to pick wingers this week. It was. Um I've gone for Ben Loder on the basis of it would have been between him and um Manifo Uboso for the left wing. Ben Loder came out on the winning side. So that's I've gone on that basis. On the right wing, it was between Freeman and Kaluri, and I've gone for Freeman because it's called a hat trick. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:05

Correct decision, Rory. Loader and Freeman would have been mine. I think harsh, but I I kind of agree Glossworth came on the win side. I think Loader had more impact on the result than Fayo Boso did for Exeter. He had like individual moments whereas Loader was so important to the Gloss' performance overall. Uh I suppose there could be shout-outs for Christian Wade. He did some quite impressive stuff, but I'd refer back to my earlier point about he's also scupped a fair few.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:30

Uh O'Flah has got again another solid game for sale. Um but yeah, but yeah, I'm just I'm just dancing around. I don't think Slight Tom like he had some good numbers, but he's no Freeman. And I'm gonna I'm not gonna test. Load of Freeman, easy. And your fullback, Rory. Max Malens. Yeah, yep, yep, yep. Definitely yeah, that feels right to me as well. Max Malens. Freddie Stewart arguably could be in the equation as well. I thought he had a relative.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:56

Could be in the equation, but again, Malens came out on the winning side in that one, so I'd give it to Malens.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:00

Fair, fair, fair, fair, fair. Okay, Rory. I'm happy with that team of the week. I'm not gonna contest it. That's the team of the week from Rux Mulls over Bulls.

Water Ranker Meltdown

SPEAKER_01 1:24:08

Now I'm gonna try and do a speed run of a game of Wata Ranker, because we missed out last week because of time with title time this week, but I don't want the listener to be left without another round of Waterranka. And I'm gonna make it nice and straightforward for you, Rory. This this one is gonna be based on stats, it's gonna be based on this season's Prem Rugby, and I want you in I'll give you 40 seconds to name Actually, I'll give you five seconds to calibrate before the time starts. Uh name players in order of points being scored from lowest to highest. And I don't want you to name multiple players with zero. I'll give you one player who's got zero points. Uh but beyond that, um I want to be a little bit more than a lot of things scored from lowest to highest from lowest to highest. Okay. And your time starts now.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:01

Ava for Solbon, James Dunn, Treadwell, uh, Don Brand, uh Jesus. Dingwall, Slight Home, uh Jesus Christ. Barbary, Caluri, Marcus Smith, Finn Russell.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:16

Okay, Finn Smith. Time's done, time's done, time's done. Through the p magical power of editing, these are the results. So Vasogbon has I'm live scoring actually, I'm live scoring here, folks. Vasogbon has two tries. He has ten points. Does he really? Oh yeah. Yeah, so that's not a strong start yet again. Uh James Dunn, let's see if he you know, this will be a new high score if he gets to two points. I don't think he's got more than two. Oh, we might have two. He's on zero tries this season. So uh again. So treadwell. It's one try, so um, he's also less than for Sogbon. So uh bowed well. But Don Brandt. Four tries, 20 points, that's the right direction. Um, so that's good. Fraser Dingle, has he scored more than four tries? Uh short answer is no. He's yet to score a try in the Prem this season. So he's on zero points. I think it's fair to say I haven't done very well in this one, David. Uh that's a very, very easy and obvious statement. Uh Slight Holmes on 20 points, he scored four tries, so you're back back where you were.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:28

I'm not really sort of doing a stepped ranking more as I'm doing sort of just a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:33

Yeah, yeah, it it carries on. So Barbary's on three, so that's 15, so that's back down. Yeah. This has not been your fly list performance. Caluri, he scored 18 tries, so he's on 90 points, so that's quite the jump from uh quite a jump from 15. And then you've gone Finn Smith uh no, you went Marcus Smith, sorry. Uh must have more than 90 points. Uh unfortunately he's got 83, so Clory's scored more points than Harlequin's fly heart. Is he really?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:56

Yeah. Wow, that's Squins have not scored a lot of tries this year then.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:59

No, uh, and Marcus Smith's kicking percentage is pretty good, so that tells you a lot. Um then you went.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:05

I don't think I've got a single pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:10

So that is in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:12

Um, but I don't think I've got I don't think I've gone more than I I think I've gone like up tick one back down. Uptick one back down.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:20

It's an exceptionally poor performance from you, Rory, in a game of Water Ranker. Yeah, yeah. I've done this extremely bad. And it's it's really going to um the listeners are gonna lose faith.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:29

I don't want you to lose faith in Wateranker. I think you can lose faith in me though.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:32

Uh uh that that ship has sailed, Rory. Um but you know, the um the the game is really struggling to gather momentum when we're we've the the the participant is unable to score higher than one. There must be a listener who's better at this than me. Oh, for sure, for sure. If you are that listener, please do let us know. But on that note, Rory, it it feels like an adequate and appropriate moment to bring the podcast

Final Thought And Sign Off

SPEAKER_01 1:27:55

to a close. And we all know that means it's tarrents for Rory's final thought. So please present. To us Rory's final thought.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:04

Lions, treble. Three trophies. Big Raw getting all three. Lions. Lions. Lions.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:12

And on that note, people, we've been Rux Bulls and Oval Bulls. Hope you've enjoyed listening. Remember to like, subscribe, follow, comment, send us a message, send us a text. Uh come on, Rory, on the weekend, get that trophy, and we'll be back again next week with some more rugby nonsense. Terra.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:30

Terra.