Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls
Welcome to Rucks Mauls & Oval Balls, the ultimate podcast for all things English rugby! Hosted by two former university teammates who shared the pitch and forged a lasting bond, this show takes you behind the scenes of the rugby world, blending insightful analysis with a shared passion for the sport. Each episode dives deep into the game, with a special focus on statistics, player performance, team dynamics, and match breakdowns. Whether you're a die-hard fan or new to the game, Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls offers expert commentary, fun debates, and insider knowledge that you won’t find anywhere else. Tune in for the perfect mix of rugby banter, in-depth analysis, and a true love for the game!
Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls
S2 Ep 29 - Lawes Is Back & So Is The Champions Cup
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Courtney Lawes is coming back to Premiership Rugby, and I’m equal parts delighted and furious. We unpack why a 37-year-old can still be a difference maker, why Sale landing him changes the feel of their recruitment overnight, and how quickly England should be picking up the phone if they want more bite, edge, and week-to-week consistency in the pack.
From there we zoom out to the business and the rulebook. The rumours of American investment in Exeter Chiefs hint at where English club rugby might be heading, especially as the USA World Cup gets closer. Then we get into the uncomfortable stuff: a biting citing, the mitigation that follows, and why the disciplinary process can feel outdated for a professional sport that says it prioritises welfare and standards.
We also feast on the Champions Cup round of 16. Saints v Castres delivers proper hostility and lessons about discipline, skill execution, and missing leaders like Alex Mitchell and Fin Smith. Bath v Saracens turns into a masterclass in bench impact and momentum swings, with a tryline-to-tryline moment that belongs on any highlights reel. We round it out with quarter final predictions, a ridiculous new ranking game, and a Women’s Six Nations preview where the Red Roses are favourites but Ireland and France look ready to ask sharper questions.
Subscribe for weekly rugby chat, share this with a mate who loves the Champions Cup, and leave us a review with your boldest quarter final call.
🎧 Thanks for tuning in to the Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls Podcast!
📲 Stay connected with us on social media for behind-the-scenes content, hot takes, and episode updates:
- Instagram: @rucksmaulsovalballs
- Twitter/X: @RMOB_Rugby
- TikTok: @rmob_rugby
- YouTube: Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls Podcast
📬 Got a question, comment, or just want to rant about your club’s form?
Email us at: RucksMaulsOvalBalls@outlook.com
Welcome And Weekend Catch Up
SPEAKER_02Welcome, Max Wall and Oves. That's right. It's the fans favourite rugby podcast coming at you from your fans favourite rugby podcast hosts. Yes, that's right, it's me, Dave, joined as ever by Rory. Rory, you know what to do. Say hello to the listener.
SPEAKER_00Hello, hello listeners. Hello, David. How are you? Oh hello, Rory.
SPEAKER_02I'm very well I'm very well. In fact, Rory. I'm uh, you know, I've I've had a lovely weekend away. Lots of rugby going on. What can I complain about? Um actually, yeah, uh yes, actually, yeah, there's plenty I will be complaining about. But outside of this podcast contents that's going to follow, nothing to complain about whatsoever. Uh how about you, Rory? How has your weekend been? How has your week been?
SPEAKER_00Uh lovely weekends, just very chilled, watching rugby, enjoying the sunshine, and um, you know, dreading going back to work. But I've got over that hurdle by going back to work today, so it's fine.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I'm uh I'm I've only got a couple of weeks left of my extended paternity leave. That's so I've been I've been enjoying what has felt like a little taster session of what retirement's like, and retirement is gonna treat me just fine, Rory. And I'm dreading civil service pension, though. Not that the listener knows that I'm a civil servant at all. Um Rory's slowly doxing my life. Um that's fine, that's fine. There's plenty of us, you won't be able to find me. And um, yeah, I'm not looking forward to that
Apologies And Welsh Name Fix
SPEAKER_02at all. And I think there's also an apology ode in this section of the podcast, Rory, because one last week when I listened back to the podcast, our banter section, that is diarised at the start of each podcast, was poor, Rory. It was poor. We did not do uh it was a lackluster, we did not do ourselves justice. I even uh upon the editing I left in a little second section where I was telling off the dog. So yeah, apologies to the listener for that was uh not our finest five minutes. And I also have been told by yourself, Rory, that uh I've been called out on my Welsh pronunciation.
SPEAKER_00You have.
SPEAKER_02Uh so please do correct my mistake and um appease the Welsh listeners who have quite rightly called me out on this personally.
SPEAKER_00Yes, well, it was in the 20 under 20, David, and you rightly identified a young man playing for Bristol in uh in the youth uh in the youth section, uh playing at Locke. Um incorrectly though, you described him as Ocean Williams. Um Ocean Williams is uh California surfer. Uh the correct Welsh pronunciation is Oshan. Um I didn't point it out at the time because um, you know, just for reasons of letting it flow and not because I didn't immediately spot it with my innate ability to um speak Welsh. It was pointed out by cousin Griff, uh my uncle Robert, and uh I was then later cascated by my Welsh partner. So uh yeah, joint apologies from the pod for David getting his pronunciation wrong and for me not uh picking it up in the moment. Yes, apologies we all strive to do better.
SPEAKER_02Yes, apologies for butchering a traditionally Welsh name. Uh I I'm going to assume.
SPEAKER_00I mean what would make it traditional.
SPEAKER_02Uh but let's face it, with everything that's going on in the in the world, it's just a drop in the ocean.
SPEAKER_00Do you like that, Rod? Do you like that? Lovely. That's great pod in there. Great pod.
SPEAKER_02And with that, we are redeemed, listener. We are redeemed. Uh but it doesn't stop there, because this podcast, we're gonna we're doing a bit of, you know, a bit of this, bit of that, a bit of everything. We're gonna do a little bit of a new section, a few things to talk about there. We're gonna talk Champions Cup, round of sixteen. You know, we can't not talk about that. I've got a little game that I'm going to test Rory on. Uh it's gonna be called um What a Ranker. What a Ranker, Rory. Um, just to be very clear, spells of an R.
SPEAKER_00I've enjoyed the games you've come up with so far, so I I look forward to being rubbish at this one as well.
SPEAKER_02I I'm hopeful that this may be more Rory friendly, but we shall see. Uh and then we'll do a little preview of the Women's Six Nations that kicks off very, very soon. And to me, Rory, that feels like a splendid redemption pod for uh last week's uh mishaps. What'd you say? Yeah, it's time to make up for things. Let's uh let's crack on. Now let's get going.
Courtney Laws Returns To The Prem
SPEAKER_02So, first up, we're we're starting with the news. And for the listener, if you're not aware, I am wearing all black um in honour of the fact that I am deeply saddened by this news. And that is um the news that Courtney Laws is returning to the Prem and he's not coming to Northampton Saints, he's going to the sale sharks, and it's is it's painful.
SPEAKER_01It's yeah, it's it's really hard to accept that I have to cheer against Courtney Laws, and it's just it's it's a lot to take.
SPEAKER_02It's a lot to take, but it's also bittersweet because the fact that he's coming back to the Prem is fantastic because he's my favourite player all the time. He's my favourite. We like Courtney Laws.
SPEAKER_00One of the best players to ever play for England, certainly one of the best that I've ever seen. Um just a fantastic player, and by all accounts still be ripping up trees in Pro de Dur.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I I maintain to this day, in the latter seven to eight years of his career, he is, has been, will continue to be, and always will be in my eyes, the most consistently excellent rugby player I've ever seen playing week in, week out. Um so Sale Sharks, who have somehow, well actually thought somehow, through the power of cash, have managed to persuade him to and I have also seen that he has said that he does have links to Cheshire through his wife, so that's perfectly understandable. He has said that the only two teams he would go to was Sale and Saints. Um and squashing those nasty rumours that were linking him to the Leicester Tigers, I think I would not I would not have been happy with that scenario. Um, question for you, David. How quickly do you put him back in the England squad? Uh if Borthwick hasn't given him a call already, he's made a mistake. He's mad. He's mad. Like we've we've spoken about in some of those games in the last kind of couple of months where England have seemed to have lacked a bit of intensity or a bit of bite. A bit of bite. Uh that is something Courtney Laws brings with abundance. And I think yes, we are stacked in the position that he is in. In I'm guessing the six shirt would probably be where he still would want to be play, although you know, a lot of people still think he's a lock, considering it's a bit bizarre because I don't think he's played in the second row for about three years. Um but hey, there isn't another back row flanker who plays the same way as Courtney Laws, as far as I'm concerned.
SPEAKER_00So he and also none of his successors have been either consistently available enough or consistently good enough to suggest to me that Courtney Laws isn't a better option. You know, George Martin, Michael, Alex Coles, you know, all great players on their day, but often injured, and done the job that Courtney did.
SPEAKER_02No, I'd well I if I'm honest, I think I'll be surprised to see any player do what Courtney could do for some time. I think he's kind of generational, the sort of consistency he offered. Um obviously I'm well aware he's 37 years old, but he's been very clear he is coming back for one season to make the World Cup, fifth World Cup with England, and he's very clear that he wants to earn it through his performances. Like he he is exactly the sort of player that I would want to have in a World Cup squad. So 100%. I really, really hope it goes well for him. I think it's turned Saleshark's recruitment from like a B minus to an A just immediately, just from one signing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh I mean look, it it whoever got him, it was gonna be a massive sign-in. Um from an international perspective, you know, look at the the job the likes of uh Dwayne Vermulen did for South Africa. You know, it's there's there's always uh you know, we're guilty of ourselves, uh a bias towards picking the youngest players, you know, picking picking um like picking 20 players under the age of 20 and you know putting them under the spot. Exactly. We you know, there's always a bias towards potential over longevity. But for me, Courtney Laws walks back into that team if he's if he's fit and on form, walks into that team.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So it is with a heavy heart that I say, Well done, Sail Sharks, welcome back, Courtney Laws. I do not look forward to watching him run out at Franklin's Gardens in a different shirt, but I still think I'm still cheering him, regardless, because he is an absolute legend. Um that's fantastic. I'm just I'm I think for the Prem, fantastic news for the Prem having a player of his quality back in the competition. Uh and again, it's just another another tick in the box about why it is becoming the best competition in domestic rugby. Um and I'm standing by that. Okay, okay. I've got over that felt cathartic to me, Rory. Um it was nice to have my piece about Courtney. You like the weight off your shoulders. I feel at least five grams lighter.
Exeter Investment Rumours And A Bite Ban
SPEAKER_02Second bit of news, Rory. Uh a little bit that you've kind of brought to my attention that I thought is worthy, again, in a similar vein around kind of how Prem Rugby is is a it's a changing beast on a almost weekly basis. Uh, and there's this talk of um some significant investment in the old Extra Chiefs, which I know is a club that you know that's been dangling in in kind of the for sale section for a little while now. Yeah. Um but it sounds like there might be a little bit of a bit of a nibble coming from some American investors.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh Tony Rose sent the message out to the shareholders that uh to expect an extraordinary general meeting. Uh, and heavily rumoured that some American financiers are coming in with a bid to buy the club. Um Tony Rose very publicly said that he sort of reached the limit of how much money he can put in. Um there is uh there's obviously a big opportunity, you know, being the in the deep southwest, extra chiefs do have a bit more of a monopoly. Um they've got big conference center, a big hotel, you know, there's a there's a more to it than just the rugby club. Um, but it's a good sign that there's still more interest in investment in the Prem. You know, we rem we await details of who these financiers are, but what we do know is they are Americans, and uh more American interest in the league um is interesting ahead of the next World Cup in the USA.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it it is following a trend where American investment does seem to be the theme just in sport in general, um, in this country. Um, there's no bloody money here, so you tell Bloody Dyson that he he'll disagree with you there, Rory. He's Singaporean these days. Or Monacan. Monogasque, isn't that the word? Um for those who reside in Monaco. If you have to ask, you can't be one. Yeah, I think I can comfortably say, although I do get my nice subscription boxes, I am not Monegasque. Um and I'm still not confident that is the right word. But we move on, Rory. But yes, that is interesting. I I I do wonder if this is just kind of signs of the times coming where people are realizing, oh, there's this competition here that could be quite interesting to invest in. And Americans love a franchise and they love not having relegation. So we'll see. We'll see what comes of that. If once we get some more news of that, we'll make sure that's shared on the channel. And then thirdly, kind of hot off the presses, um, a little bit of a more power topic, the sort of thing we don't generally um advertise widely, but old old Nathan Jabulu getting cited for a bite, which you know, no place for that in rugby.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and we bit Will Hobson, he's admitted it. Um the so there is obviously a bit of precedent on this one. Uh the last one was the French player who bit Ether Wafer, whose name escapes from the top of my head. Um the general sanctions 12 weeks, but because he admits it, it's been mitigated down to six weeks, which not great, but probably just about saves his odds of going on England's summer tour. Very bad news for Sale with because uh Luke Calendar looks like he's fractured his season's overarm, so his season's over. As is Bevan Rodz. As is Bevan Rodz. Yeah, and Nathan Jabulu is out for effectively the rest of the season. So if Sale's season wasn't in trouble already, it certainly is now.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that's um very loosely prophesied um chance of them doing a late charge up to the top four in the Prem. I think you can put the nail in that coffin quite comfortably now, if I'm honest. Um, but you know, they've signed Courtney Laws, so they're not gonna be too sad because they've signed the greatest player of all time. I thought I was over it, Rory. I'm not. Bloody it's the worst news. Come on, David. Come on. I'll snap out of it. But yeah, so it's an interesting one kind of admission of guilt, knocking six weeks off a ban for something like a bite.
SPEAKER_00I d I don't know how I feel about it morally, because I think Well, it's it's it's an indictment of rugby disciplinary process, which is basically the headmaster's office. Yeah, it's just it's just ludicrous.
SPEAKER_02Um if you turn up, look down at your toes and say sorry, you you get off a bit more lightly, even though I remember Joe Marler saying he he he got um he got pulled up for not turning up in a shirt and got more of a ban.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, it's yeah, it the whole process is it's so public school, it's mental.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it'd be nice if they could modernise that. Once again, uh we'll add that to the list of things we are putting ourselves out there to be available for. More than happy to replace the sighting board uh on Roxballs Overballs, and we will be um, you know, if people turn up not in a shirt, we don't mind, we don't mind. But if you bite people, we we do mind. We do mind quite a lot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um but hey, won't dwell on it too much, but a little bit of news for your listener and any Salesharks fans out there. Real mixed bag for you to absorb.
SPEAKER_02Uh but that's the news, Rory.
Champions Cup Round Of 16 Recap
SPEAKER_02That's the news. I think let's dig into Champions Cup round of sixteen. Uh because that has been this weekend's feast for the eyes, and lots of games. Round of sixteen. I've got mixed feelings around this particular step in this competition because um we've we said last season, we've said in the past, we've said numerous times about the structure of this competition and how this is a pointless round, but it has thrown up some interesting results. Um should we run through the results in general? Because we're not going to go through each game game by game. We've made that mistake in the past, and uh we nearly end up recording for three hours and then having to edit most of the interesting stuff out of it.
SPEAKER_00Um just run through the results very quickly. Yeah. So Friday night, uh Frappings Gardens. Were you there for this one, David? Uh I was not because of the aforementioned trip away for the weekend. Oh, yes, of course. Well, you missed a humdinger. It was Northampton Saints 49 cast 41. We will be going into this one in a bit more detail.
SPEAKER_02We will dig into this one very, very shortly.
SPEAKER_00Saturday, uh, an all English affair, Bath 31, Saracen's 22. Again, we will go into this one in a bit more detail.
SPEAKER_02Another one I would like to talk about, absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Two home wins.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Rory. Next, Toulon 28, Cape Town Stormers 27. Another home victory, but a very interesting game, very good game. Okay. Uh then in Scotland, played in atrocious conditions, Glasgow Warriors 25, Pretoria Bulls 21.
SPEAKER_02Interesting, close. The South African team's actually trying, which is, you know.
SPEAKER_00They actually did try. I mean, none of them got through, but they tried. They tried, bless them. They bless them, bless them. And then down in the south of France, playing rugby from the gods. I don't think it matters who turned up this weekend, but on this occasion, Bristol were the unfortunate souls who had to go to Toulouse. Uh Toulouse 59, Bristol 26. Yeah. Shellacken. It's a shellacken.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But if you watched this game as I did, you'd you'd have some sympathy with Bristol, who obviously down a few players.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you'd just have to say at some point you just can't hold back a tidal wave. It's just impossible.
SPEAKER_02I I watched this game with a few Bristol Bears fans, and it was very enjoyable as a neutral. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm wearing my Toulouse shirt today in uh in honor of how brilliant they were. Absolutely. Um then we head back to West London.
SPEAKER_02Oh, the battle the battle of the outer form.
SPEAKER_00Yes, uh, where uh not quite every Deloitte consultant turned up this week. There was some empty empty chairs at the stoop.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um to watch an average game, if we're being honest. Harlequin 17 sale 26. Yeah, won't be dwelling on that game too much, I don't think. Two poor sides. I will give a shout out to Don Brandt's performance, who I thought was excellent in a valiant comeback. Um Luke Handick is very good until he snapped his arm. Yeah. But and George Ford just sort of steered the ship home. But um, yeah, not a great game that one. No. And then going on to Sunday, uh, heading to one of your favourite towns in uh in Europe, Bordeaux. Love Bordeaux, where a mixed Tiger side went across. It's almost like they didn't think they would win for some reason. Well, they were right on this occasion because it was Bordeaux 64, Tigers 14.
unknownQuite.
SPEAKER_00So they were very right to think they wouldn't win this one. Um tough day at the office. Yeah, I mean, again, not one really to dwell on because frankly less said about it from a Leicester perspective, the better. Worth watching for Ben Tamafuna's trial where he runs it in nearly from the edge of the 22. That was that's a moment worth seeing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was prime Rory in my mind.
SPEAKER_00That was like straight out of the Rory Lane playbook, man. Yeah, yeah. I thought I I agree completely. And the final game of the weekend, Leinster 49, Edinburgh 31. Looks like a relatively comfortable game for Leinster, didn't play out this way. Uh, with about on about 51 minutes, yeah, just over 50 minutes. Darcy Graham actually scored a worldie of a try to put Edinburgh 3128 up. Um they scored like three intercept tries, three or four intercept tries. It was mad. I mean, Leinster just couldn't keep hold of the pill, but um eventually the quality shining through and Leinster got home and hosed. But um a bit of a wobble there from uh Islands Elite.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, I I I think we've seen a few wobbles from these the from the Leinster side this season.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, a bit of an average season from the URC. I think they're languishing in fourth at the moment. Um they had a fairly easy um yeah, quite unquote easy Champions Cup group.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, all I know is I know what side of the draw I'd wish I was on if I was to be able to pick what side of the draw I'm on. Unfortunately, as a Northampton Saints fan, I am not on that side of the draw, considering I've got Toulouse, Bordeaux, Bath, all yeah. Yeah, I won't dwell it too much. But for me, Rory, the round of sixteen for me, like I've it's very noticeable to me that this bar the one game between the two most out of foreign teams in England, home wins across the board, yeah, granted a couple of close ones with the South African teams, and granted Edinburgh made Leinster sweat. I still feel this round of sixteen.
SPEAKER_00Hang on, before we get too far ahead of ourselves, David. I would say the Saints sweated a little bit on this occasion as well.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, they did.
SPEAKER_02Yes, they did. Uh and I suppose arguably you could say Bath probably had a little bit of sweat.
SPEAKER_00I think Bath sweated as well. Look, I I agree with you that this round is broadly unnecessary. We don't need it, and it it just elongates the competition into more unnecessary games, and it's it's it's a it's part of a bad design of the competition that I really hope that the working group between the leagues comes together and fixes. But I I actually think this threw up a lot of interesting games this weekend. I think Northampton Cast was a much closer game than I expected. I didn't think Cast would go for it, they really did. Saracens, after their recent shellac into Bath, fronted up this week. Stormers and Bulls both going away really tricky way. Glasgow have been very good in the URC and very good in this competition, beat Toulouse, let's not forget. Yeah, yeah. Um, and Bulls pushed them right to the I mean, and they were still going right at the end here. You know, this was this was squeaky button time for the Glaswegians, and uh the Stormers really pushed that Toulon side as well. Toulon went down to 13 men um at the end there, they they just about scraped home. Um And yeah, Edinburgh put on a really good show in against Leinster at uh, you know. Um, as I say, with half hour to go, they were ahead. So Okay. Yes, a pointless round.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But we were at least treated as some some very good games.
SPEAKER_02Well, I will acknowledge that fact, Rory. Um I agree with you. It is a pointless round, but at least we have some good games to talk about. And if there's nothing we don't like to talk about, Rory, it's some good games rugby. So let's do a couple of deep dives into some of those
Saints Vs Cast Deep Dive
SPEAKER_02games. I think you mentioned at the start that the Northampton Saints versus Cast game, I think, is worthy of a bit of a further analysis from our fine selves.
SPEAKER_00Um, can I can I posit something to you on this one, David? Please had cast been able to keep hold of their discipline even a bit more than they did in this game. Are you a hundred percent certain Northampton get through this one?
SPEAKER_02No, not at all. Considering they had three yellow cards, uh they were ahead at half time, they they rode out well they they managed their yellow cards really well, um, in fact. So like I I think had that not happened, had they kept their heads and you know, not tried to take off a few blonde-haired heads um on the day, I I think they may well have, but I also wonder whether that they were playing with anger almost. Like you can you can tell there was a physicality to the way cast came to play. Oh, and the defence was brutal. Oh, it was brutal. It was brutal. But I do wonder that it's because of that level of passion they were playing with, which is why they conceded so many penalties and were hot headed. That's why it was so close. So had they not come with that and they didn't concede those penalties, perhaps they wouldn't have fronted up as well as they did against the Saints side. And scared, let's face it, in the first half, like they absolutely shell shook that Saints side. Um they were in the lead at half time because um I don't think Saints expected this cast team to turn up the way they did. Because we played them twice last year, uh I think once at this exact same stage and in the groups, both times comfortable victories for Northampton. Um, so I don't feel maybe a bit of complacency from a Northampton perspective. I don't I don't know. Similar to what we saw when Newcastle came in the first round of the Prem after the Six Nations, uh, had a similarish feel to that.
SPEAKER_00I wanted to to kind of marry those two performances up a little bit here, David, because two two wins in those two games, but two tight wins, and I've got to say, two less than convincing performances from Northampton since the Six Nations. Now I know that there's obviously injuries, there was injuries in this game. I think uh Ram went off quite early, didn't he? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um and he was looking quite dangerous as well, to be fair.
SPEAKER_00He was. Um, but is there anything in the back of your head that's thinking, does something feel a little bit off at the moment? We're not quite performing. There's a lot. I mean, the the real um striking thing for me watching this, and again it was similar in the Newcastle game, it was just quite how poor some of the skills and handling for it, how kind of clunky Saints looked.
SPEAKER_02So, yes and no. So the the green-eyed optimist and kind of one-eyedness in the is thinking we've we've played three games since the Six Nations, we've won all three, and we've not been playing our best rugby. I think we've only played about 20 minutes of what I would call Saints rugby. Other than that, it's not been anywhere near the level we've come to expect, yet we've still walked away with three wins. Um so on one hand, they always say that championship winning teams still find ways to win when they're not playing at their best. Is that is that what Northampton are currently in? They're not playing at their best, but they're still finding ways to win. So that's the optimistic, probably very biased view in my head. The attempted neutrality that I try to apply, uh I am worried because what makes Northampton so dangerous to play against from an opposition's perspective is that fear of them the unpredictable and the shapes they create and the fact that they can score from anywhere. I don't feel like what we're seeing at the moment is necessarily that. I think we're really grinding out victories and we're really having to do some hard yards to get to the points we're getting, where in the past it felt like we could unlock most defences almost with ease at times. I don't feel like we got that yet.
SPEAKER_00Um I've I've got to be I mean Archie O'Polland, friend of the pod. We're a big fan. I think he's got bags of potential, um, and I think you know he's got all the skills in there. Tony Bellew, one of the signs of the seasons in the in the Prem, um, particularly at the start of the season, was absolutely outstanding for the Saints. But it doesn't feel like it's quite merrying up. I mean, Archie threw I mean several interceptions.
SPEAKER_02I know you meant you you you were kind enough to message me during the game to ask, is he going to send is he going to pass any more interceptions?
SPEAKER_00I would I'll I would argue two two tries given away with with interception and it should have been could have been a third if it hadn't been chalked off with a knock-on.
SPEAKER_02I would argue the Tyler Ardron one shouldn't have stood because he was a mile offside. I don't care who I don't care who you are, he was a mile offside.
SPEAKER_00What what what I would say to you're right, he was offside, but what I would say is a more experienced head or you've you've already thrown one, and I know Saints like to play wide, wide, wide and throw wide passes. You've seen how aggressive the cast defence is. It was continuing to throw those kind of wide passes off the base of the ruck that flat to the line, not asking for trouble.
SPEAKER_02It was naive, I'd say. It was probably a bit naive. It's it's a little bit I'd say Phil Dowson is very clear that the Northampton Saints DNA is about not being afraid to make mistakes and to try things. And I think what we're seeing here is what happens when it doesn't necessarily go right. I still think there's got to be a learning process, though. There is a learning process, and I think you have to remember Archie McParlane, he's 21. Like he is going to be.
SPEAKER_00I I think he's got bags and bags of potential. What I'm really wondering is how much is this Saints team missing Alex Mitchell right now?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Well, I I think any any team would miss a player, the quality of Alex Mitchell, and and likewise Finn Smith. I think missing both of those players is probably a big reason why we're not seeing Northampton click as much as we've come accustomed to. Um and that is no slight to McPah and Orbello, because I think they're both have both having excellent seasons themselves. Um I would probably put out there that I think cast came out and attacked that specifically, that that channel, and I think it's probably something they've identified. Northampton, yes, probably should react to that better and um not play into those hands, but Northampton are trained and coached to keep trying things that they think are on, and in those times and in those moments, that's what was felt was on the on the time. We were just picked off a few times by a cast team that were targeting it. That's how that's how I read it on the day. Um is it naive? Is it you know, is there a lesson to be learned there? Sure. Like, is it a bit bears-esque from last season where they would just force things and you know concede bucketfuls of tries because you just kept trying to force things that were never on? It did feel a bit a little bit like that, but I think that's where we're that's where we are missing the the experience of an Alex Mitchell and the the cool headedness of a Finn Smith.
SPEAKER_00Say you who else you really missed. Well, two players you really missed up front. Not starting Curtis Langdon and not having Alex Coles because they made a right old mess of your lineup, even though you actually still won a lot of the ball, they absolutely made a mess of it. And I think uh is it Craig Wright, the yes, who I really I really like the look of, and I think he's got again bags of potential. I particularly liked watching him in the under-20s. I think he was an absolute wrecking ball. Yeah, um, I think having him in there and uh with the best one in the world, not the two most athletic second rows, yeah. Um in Lockett and Vandemes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.
SPEAKER_00Was uh you could well, it was asking for trouble, probably to not have um maybe Chenya Munger starting, for example, a slightly more athletic lock there. Um, because the line out was a right mess, and that that made a that made your starters play, starter plays, which obviously a lot of what Northampton live off really messy, and I think gave past a lot of really easy entrances into your half, which they capitalised on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um I I I so I think Curtis Langdon to a degree probably managing him back again. Maybe he is a bit of complacency. Maybe they thought maybe there was just an expectation that cast weren't really gonna come and target this game too much. We didn't think we need to start him because he is still working his way back from quite a lengthy injury period. I fully expect him to start this weekend against Bath in the quarterfinal, if I'm completely honest. Um, because when he did come on, it was noticeable how much everything just shuled up a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, it was really, really noticeable, actually, wasn't it? It was like all of a sudden it went from being an absolute binfire to just 100% steady hand security. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Makes a huge steady hand on the I so I'm really happy that Curtis Langer's coming back. So I think him coming back is going to feel like a new signing once he's kind of hit his hits hits his straps because I think he is that good of a player and we've missed him quite a lot more than people probably realise.
SPEAKER_00Big opportunity for him in the summer, potentially, if he's fit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I no cow dickey. I've I've I I've argued for a few seasons now that I think he deserves a bit more recognition internationally. But you know how it is these days, like sometimes if your face doesn't fit, it doesn't just doesn't happen for you. But hey, it it means we get more rugby from him at Northampton, which I am all for. Um but no, I I agree. I think line out didn't work. I think also I think we missed Trevor Davison. Um scrub time wasn't as comfortable as I thought it was going to be. Um I think Luke Green stood up well. I think he's okay. He did okay. He's got a nice turnover at one point. Yeah, I I think I think he's because he's gonna get more game time now for the rest of the season, because I think Davison's out for the season. Yeah. Um I think he's a I think Luke Green's a sort of player who could start to grow with the more game time because he's I think he's quite uh he was a well thought of prop in the Irish Academy, I think. And he's just one of these ones that kind of fell away when with the demise of London Irish, and he's had to work his way back through various I think he went to the USA for a little while and he's come back, like kind of had to move around for trying to kind of stay within rugby. And I think he was quite highly thought of in the Irish setup. So interesting to see if he gets you know comes on leaps and bounds. I also thought Kundiona looked pretty pretty strong when he was came on pin and had some impactful scrubs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think Saints right now can't afford not to pick their more experienced players. I think there was the it was the moment when um asked to put quite an aggressive grubber through, and again it feels like I'm picking RJ Parland kind of messes up in the backfield, oh yeah, kind of misfields it effectively, and it gets hacked on through again. And Pollock covers the backfield, has to give away a five-meter scrum. Yeah, and I think that was when Karavalevu just basically bulldozed um Tony Bernier. Yeah, you know, it was which you know, it was it was a nice moment to watch because if you like if you like those kind of players, which I do, yeah, yeah, you know, that's exactly how you want to see them used. But again, it just it feels like there's they don't have the kind of coolness under pressure that you sort of do associate with them when when the the more experienced heads are there.
SPEAKER_02So I I've got a theory, Rory. I've got a theory. So obviously Lee Radford, the defence coach for the Northampton Saints, is has been kind of part-timing of Scotland. Obviously, he's been away with Scotland through the Six Nations. Maybe Saints defence has lapsed while he's been away and he's going off to become full-time Scotland defence coach next season. Maybe there's a gap there and it's just not being filled properly. Because it does it does feel like that call is under pressure that that we saw last season, I think, quite specifically, that kind of led us to the Champions Cup final, isn't there at the moment. It may come back, it may come back, but I I do think right. I think there's a couple of other talking points around this game that's worth talking about. I think whether there's something talk around the targeting that was quite evident to Henry Pollock, it was quite blatant, let's face it. Like he was, you know, subjected to a number of quite big hits. And I know we spoke in the past, like he is this is gonna happen, he goads it himself, he brings it on himself. I thought I thought he handled that on his from his perspective quite maturely. He didn't rise to it. Um and he responded to it on the pitch. So like a lot of people always call out how like his arrogance or that I felt he handled that really well, and it was I think it was quite audible that at one point Furbank went up to reference and says, You're gonna you're gonna do anything about the fact that they're trying to rip this guy's head off. Um obviously nothing happened.
SPEAKER_00Uh and I think the other talking point sorry to interrupt Brian Moore had a um he did a column about Henry Pollock and uh uh Matram. Um but he had a nice uh little comment within it. And it's a nice, it's a it's not a bad column, he's not it's not a hatchet job any stretch. He's he's pretty in favour of it, it's just it's just a bit of a general warning. Um but he uh I'll read just a quote from towards the end of the column. Uh on a bright note, as a former multiple winner of the Winding Up the French Award, I'm happy to pass the manager to Pollock, who again showed last week in this weekend that he's able to live rent-free in his Gallic opponents' heads. Without doing much more than existing, he managed to provoke several unprofessional responses from Castle Impact players, including one which and Guillaume Ducat, a yellow card. I can tell him that the niggle but don't hit back strategy is painful, but it does work.
SPEAKER_02I think the fact that a 21-year-old has been able to achieve that already, fair play to him. Um obviously it's it's it it's gonna be something he's gonna have to learn to deal with through his career because I think it's it is gonna happen. Uh but I thought full credit to him to how he handled it on the weekend. I thought he handled it really well. And I think the other talking point was if the rumoured transfer of George Furbank to Quinn's is still on, things are gonna miss him because I thought he was a bit of a difference maker.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the line for his try was world class. So good. He he cuts through four defenders at least doing that, and it's it's so clever. Absolutely world class. If you'd seen Will Jordan, if you'd seen Chris Cullen cut that line, people would would be talking about it. It's it was world, world, world class to to thread the needle like that through what was a really good cast defence on the day. I know 4941, it looks like it was defence optional, it really wasn't like that in this game. It was it was proper proper physical defence, particularly from cast. Yeah, um, but that line was like yeah, Chris Cullen at its best. Superb.
SPEAKER_02And it's it's hard to explain, but like there's subtlety to the to the genius, but it's just such a small change to a running angle had such a big impact, and it's it's it's things like that, and it's that like touch of class that if he is moving to Quinn's, as is widely reported, Northampton Saints will miss it tremendously. And I think we I think he's shown quite quickly how much we've missed him this season as well. So it bodes well that the likes of him and Langdon are coming back towards the end of the season, but twists we are racking up injuries at a rate of knots as well, unfortunately. I think it would also be unfair to not give a nod to a few cast players. I think Ambadieng, the winger, looked out. Oh, what a literature.
SPEAKER_00The try right at the end, which you know, again, um in um you know, a futile at that point, the game was gone. But it was a lovely little chip from I think it's Batita chips the ball in in their own 22 and he gathers it, and he has he he actually has the running style of an Olympic sprinter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he looked, he just looked perfect, like perfect runner. Like when you watch a lot of fast rugby players, they don't run the same way as a sprinter on a track, because obviously you don't, it's just not the same thing. But he looked like a track sprinter, yeah, yeah. It was phenomenal, and he and he was a pain in Northampton style. Yes, absolutely. I'd also thought I thought he was excellent.
SPEAKER_02He was excellent, and Caravalevu was just units.
SPEAKER_00I thought he was excellent. Uh I thought Papaliti was was really impactful for the time that he was on the pitch. I thought a ratter when he came on was electric, rapid, absolutely rapid. Um, I thought the fullback Shabuni was really good. Yeah. Um yeah, I I look, I I thought I thought I really likes. I've I've been a watch rope there a couple of times. I really like Cast as Dan, I really like Cast as a rugby team. They punch so far above their weight in the French leagues. Um, they've never really been much of a force in Europe, they've really focused they focus on the top 14. But um I I liked a lot about this cast performance. Um I even like the fact that it was niggly and angry because it at the very least you really got a sense that they they wanted this one. Yeah. Um and that's that's how these kind of that's how you actually used to get excited about European competition.
SPEAKER_02I think that's the most unexpected thing is that a cast Olympic side turned up in a knockout game as the away side and came with anger, they came with purpose, they came to win, I think. And what more could we be asked for? Is we we've we've judged this competition in the past about teams really giving up on it. So full credit to the cast side, coaching teams, the fans. Uh from the reports I've seen from the the the Saints fan groups that the fans were excellent as well. So, overall, a fantastic advert for what is the most pointless round of knockout rugby in European rugby. Um, so fair play, fair play. Um, but hey, as a Saints fan, another gritty win. We're through for the next round, and we get the lovely joy of going to play uh another Prem rugby side in the quarterfinals.
Bath Vs Saracens Deep Dive
SPEAKER_02Lovely. Um speaking of which, I think that's the other game I want to dive into this week, Rory, is the Bath versus Saracens game. Because I think again this was another one that was there was a few other, you know, undertones to this game, kind of with how Saracens were just obliterated just a few weeks prior. Um it being in the Champions Cup, Bath seemingly coming into some good form, and not really knowing whether it was going to be any different this week compared to the one a couple of weeks ago. And I will say quite happily that Saracens came to play and they they were fronted, they fronted up big time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um yeah, I it it couldn't well we said at the time that a couple of weeks ago that you know Bath gave Saris a shellack in in the end.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Saris didn't play the bat that badly in that game. No, yeah, I remember you saying that actually Saracens were actually played, they played well, but just Bath just were clinical. The problem was Bath couldn't stop scoring tries in that game. Saracens just in the end were just out on their feet trying to defend them. In this game, um, Saracens were everything you think of a Saracen side, is particularly in the first half. Um, so but you know, Bath start really well, um Barbary is carrying loads of ball, Obana gets held up over the line, and you start thinking this could all just go one way again. You know, Bath looks looks right on it. But then Saris get up the other end of the pitch, put sort of continuous pressure on Bath and Charlie Bracken, um, who was really good in this game, gave Saracens real, real tempo, which I think is absolutely what they've lacked. I think it's probably what they lacked in the last game, to be honest. They need you need to pick Charlie Bracken for me at the moment until Thomas Williams comes in, because this this side, this Saracen side needs tempo to get going. They just look so much better.
SPEAKER_02They look so much better with quick ball.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, as he scores the first try just before the 15-minute mark, just sniping off the back of a line, a really good line that mole with the with the biggest gate ever offered to him on a plate by uh was it Archie Griffin who just left the left the door open and left the lights on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Burglars are welcome sign outside, yeah. Um, but I mean Saracens were so after they were they were massive in defense, absolutely knocking them back. Their mall defence was enormous. I mean, you don't see many teams stop Bath Mall dead the way the Saracens were in this game. They were well on top in the scrum, and Brees Carey in the first half gave Archie Griffin, obviously international teammates, he gave him a torrid on top. Yeah, I felt a little bit bad for Archie Griffin. Uh yeah, I think Archie Griffin Archie Griffin does have potential, but it's so unfavourable to be the third choice between Will Stewart and obviously Thomas the Tank.
SPEAKER_02Well, I I think what also is also unfavourable is that when you get replaced by Thomas the Tank, and then it just is so polar opposite, it kind of exposes your flaws a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, completely, completely. Um, it's you know, it's offered, but in the first 25, Saracens are well on top. Guy Pepper gets bin for basically cynical play. Yeah. Um, and in that first half they finish 10 0 up. You know, how many halves of Rogue? Be have Bath not scored in this season. I would wager that's the first one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, especially at home at the wreck, being niled at halftime. Doesn't happen. Doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_00And then, yeah, as you say, Thomas Thomas the Tank comes on at uh at half time for Archie Griffin and the game flips pretty quickly. Um not the first time that he's come on and basically saved Bath's baker. No, look, Arthur built built the Bath bombs for a reason for situations like this, either to capitalise on leads or to change the momentum of a game when it's not going their way. And more often than not, it works. On this occasion, it absolutely worked. Once um he came on, I mean Benham Abano does get um does get binned at one point um or repeated infringement at the scrum, I think it was, if I remember rightly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that was a call that next next penalty at the scrum, whoever it is, goes to the bin, and it was unfortunately Ubano.
SPEAKER_00Um but you know Arundel scores quite early on in the half. Really nice line. Maratogio got got caught out for the first time. I think just massively surprised by what a good pass Charlie Neels threw. Um sort of a two-person misspass right right across the face of the fence. And Maratogio, perfectly understandably, didn't see that coming. Um, and Arundel chucks a lovely line against the grain and steps past like three players. Lovely guys, yeah. I think it's like past Bracken, Tompkins, and Daly. Kaluri just about catches him on the line, but um, he's by that point he's he's already basically scored the game. And um it's the it that already felt ominous at that point. Um, and then when the Bath Scrum starts turning the screw, you'd you realise pretty quick what way this is going. Yeah, yeah. Um so Katho Singer scores again five minutes later, picks some picking up loose ball after they they dominate scrum. Um the the physicality just completely switched. So uh 10 minutes after that, possibly the try of the season, arguably. Yeah, and so Saracens are inches from scoring over the line. Um it was uh who made the break? Foes Burke. Burke made the break. Um it's really good play. They get right up to the try line. Uh Anne Yama Christi knocks the ball off basically in the act of scoring. Yeah, yeah. Ball comes off the base of the ruck, he knocks it on, Russell feeds it off, gets fed out to Thokina Singer on the right, who recognises he's got the gas to go round, I think, barrel on the edge. I can't remember exactly who it was on the edge. Yeah, yeah. Someone Thokina Singer was a lot faster than whoever it was. Yeah. Um, and he gasses them, sees the two on, passing into Barberi, who very unselfishly realizes he's got no gas whatsoever. Yeah, very small. Gives it to Ben Spencer to run it. I mean, it's literally trialine to try line. Great try, really good. It was very reminiscent in some ways of you'll remember the Chris Ashton try against Australia from uh the Courtney Laws actually was a big part of it. Why did you have to say his name? I know, just gonna keep doing that. I'm grumpy now, Rory.
SPEAKER_02Well done.
SPEAKER_00But it it's actually quite rare you see an end-to-end try like that in that in that vein. Um, excellent really good. Um, and at that point, you know, you you sort of tune the game's only going one way. Um and there, but then Max Malens pulls one back. Van Ziel gets a break in the middle of the field after a couple of minutes before, actually. Atoje gets a really good break in the middle of the field as well. I don't think he's he runs about 60 metres up the pitch with it, and he just you could just tell he wasn't sure what to do, just lost, just hoping someone catches up with him because he slowed it down, he sped up, he he thought about the kick, he thought about stepping. It's just like I'll just keep running and just hope someone catches me.
SPEAKER_02Like, I I there's a part of me that really empathized with Ratoshi because it kind of reminds me of my very short-lived rugby career where it feels like once a season you you find yourself in a position where you're just not used to, and you're just you're you're running and you're running for a lot longer than you would have ever wanted to, and then you're like, oh. Which is almost any run I've ever done. Yeah, but you've got to make a decision then at some point because then like the guy in front of you, like, do you rather throw him? That's the natural or should I do that?
SPEAKER_00My favourite example of this, you'll you'll you'll know exactly what I'm talking about when I mention big Davy Wilson. Yes. Oh the break, and then the inexplicable decision as a tight end on the loose to try and chip and chase the fullback. Yeah, and obviously the fullback just catches it and marks the ball. It's just it's it's a fantastic moment, but you really got a sense of no one's ever bothered to coach these players what to do in a line break because no one thought it was going to happen.
SPEAKER_02It's it's it's those moments where props mainly they just become human like the rest of us because they think they have the skills and are able to do the things they've watched on the television. We do have the skills, what we don't have is the pace. True, true, yeah, yeah. It's yeah, it's just the the execution is hindered by the physical.
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_00In my mind's eye, I'm Jason Robinson against Wales in the 2003 World Cup. Yeah, but the the legs won't do what the mind sees. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02As someone who attends a touch rugby league for fat men who are primarily ex-props, I know exactly what you mean because that's what it is. Every other play is fat guys who think they know how to run fast, but they can't, and they get injured and fall over.
SPEAKER_00Um people think that wicked song Defying Gravity was uh is about a green witch learning to fly a broom. That's about David. It's actually about props to denying the physics of their own knees. There is no greater mystery to man. Um but yeah, so so maybe scores on about 66 minutes. So um Banzil makes the break up the pitch, ball gets turned over, Pelluri dumps Arundell into touch, really nice bit of defence. I think Pelluri's defence is really good on Lisa, but it's quite physical. Quite physical in defence.
SPEAKER_02I thought he looked a lot better on the turn than defence. I thought his positioning was considered and physicality, he fronted up really well.
SPEAKER_00You you can see the effect that good coaching is having on him at the moment, and being in this kind of environment. But I think physically, you know, he's not a lot bigger than he was at the start of the season, but he just looks more solid. I don't, you know, he doesn't he just he kind of there's something you can see, like he looks he just looks like he's been conditioned puppy foul on him now.
SPEAKER_02He's yeah. I would I would still argue Saracens still haven't figured out how to use him that well.
SPEAKER_00Well, I would more argue that Saracens haven't figured out how to attack.
SPEAKER_02That's fair, that's fair.
SPEAKER_00Um, but on this occasion, so they get the um the line out on the right hand side and play play out to the left, really nice bit of play, and put Maynard's in in the corner. Um, and you think, you know, game is the game back on, but then Harry Wilson gets himself bin for a daft high shot. Um Ollie Lawrence powers over two minutes later. Again, a really nice line from Lawrence. You know, again looked really, really good. Um Calorie gets does score a very nice try, um steps inside well to make the the kick easier clever bit of play, and the fact that he finished it was important because he nearly stepped himself into trouble. Um, but Van Ziel then gets two box kicks in a row wrong, kicks out, uh kicks short, and then kicks out on the full. And Saracen's opportunity, because at that point it's I think 22 well 26-22 or 24-22. Yeah. Um, so had Saracen's kept the ball or got got the box kicks right, they had a real opportunity there. Um, but Van Zill gets it wrong twice in a row, poorly. Um, and Arundel finishes off at the end after Bath decided to go for you know 30 phases of pick and go to kind of the old Bath special game. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a real Bath special, Bath back play. And but the what what I think's really key from this is you saw a bit of what Saracens can do when they're on it, particularly what they can do with Charlie Bracken at nine. Yeah. Um I think there was a lot more bite in their forward pack, um, despite missing some key names. Um, but the bath machine just kind of rumbles on at the moment, really. It does, yeah. It's at the moment the bath bombs are the absolute difference.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, I I think it's it's that that squad depth and that that bench.
SPEAKER_00It's not a groundbreaking observation. You would we wouldn't be the first to make it, but it's it looks it looks like it's gonna be very tricky for anyone to keep up with them for 80 minutes, at least certainly very tricky for any Prem team to go with them for 80 minutes.
SPEAKER_02Um my question to you, Rory, is do we think this Bath side is all being well the best equipped Prem side to take on the likes of Toulouse, Bordeaux, Leinster, Glasgow? Can we see them realistically challenging them? Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, no, ultimately I think so. I mean, obviously it can only be one of Bath or Northampton, and I don't expect Sale to get any further in the tournament, obviously, after this weekend. Um but I you know I I would love it if it if it had been that Bath and Northampton weren't in the same, weren't playing each other this weekend. I'd like to have seen both get the opportunity to get through to the semi-finals. Um but at least we know that one English team will certainly be in the semi-finals of those two sides, as of this minute, and having watched them over the last two or three weeks, Bath are the best equipped. Northampton are suffering from injuries, I think. They don't feel quite where they were towards the start of the season. Um and I think they're still I think particularly having lost Trevor Davison and having lost Alex Coles, I feel like that's half set piece. Well, and that bath set, I yeah, I just I just basically think I don't think Northampton's type five is strong enough at the moment to go all the way. Um, and you know, strong metaphorically, they've got Vandermeshton, you know, incredibly strong. But I feel I feel like without Alex Coles in there, the locks become quite one-dimensional with Van Der Mesht and a Locket or a Prowse. Um the scrum's not quite strong enough, the line out's not quite good enough, the general sense of the attacking play is just not quite there at the moment. They don't have they don't have that kind of Northampton at their best are sort of telepathic in attack. It doesn't quite feel like that at the moment for me. Yeah, but you know, they're not as entertaining to watch, let's make no buzz about it. We and we've been very honest about that on the podcast. Insultingly so, some might say. So I wonder why we get insulted in their fangroups. Yeah, I know. Um, but um ultimately I think they're they're equipped enough to cope with the best packs in the league. I think they can beat Leinster's pack, I think they can go toe to toe with Bordeaux and Toulouse's packs and Glasgow's pack. Um, and they've got in Finn Russell, in Germo Lawrence, in Arundel, in Carreras. You know, they've got magic in the back line that is is probably enough to get you over the line in the big games, where it's often just a score in it. Yeah, yeah. They've got players who can take advantage of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Whether they will or not, we'll see. But they probably are the best equipped too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think the other well, I don't I don't want to uh spoil the uh the quarterfinal predictions, but the other the other potential problem for Northampton Saints is that I'm going to the game, and the last few times I've been to watch Northampton Saints play in Bath, we've lost, I think, every time I've been there, and the one time I've not been there is the one time we've won. So that's not a good one.
SPEAKER_00So what you're saying is you're plotting there down for yourself.
SPEAKER_02Uh what I'm saying is um What am I saying? I'm cursed, Rory. I'm cursed. And maybe this weekend, maybe this weekend, I will rid myself of that curse. But yeah, well before we move on to the quarterfinal predictions, uh, are there any other talking points from any of the other games you wish to bring forward for the listener to enjoy before we do our quarterfinal predictions?
SPEAKER_00No, I mean look, I'm I would say I think Leicester look Leicester were always now a tricky time kind of Bordeaux regards to the team they put picked, but not taking your frontline props um against that team is tantamount to a med defeat. Um I think they're the ones I'm most disappointed in because they've been going really well in the prem. They're in really good form. I'm not saying they would have definitely gone down and beaten Bordeaux, but I'm not sure they gave it their best shot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, could have could have.
SPEAKER_00You know, not picking Billy Sell, not picking Will Wand.
SPEAKER_02Felt a little bit like a white flag being flown when it'd be nice if they at least tried.
SPEAKER_00And let's be realistic, the result does show that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, it does, it does. And at least on Bristol's behalf, they tried.
SPEAKER_00Um look, Bristol came a great go. They started off really well, you know. At time that's the tries they scored, particularly Noah Hayward's try, were excellent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Excellent, excellent tries. It's just Toulouse scored a lot more excellent, excellent tries. A hell of a lot, a lot more excellent, excellent tries. Huge number more excellent, excellent tries. Um look, Toulouse in that form will beat anyone. Um but you know, I thought Bristol had a real crack at it, and they just came up against a team with like so you know, Gorgaz was phenomenal, Teddy Tomau was his beletic best. Teddy Thomau was Nobel can stop score, yeah. Um you know, the the pack were throwing the ball around, Jacques Willis was phenomenal, Alvaca was everywhere, you know. I saw Aldegary make a run, you know. It's just one of those days where you're looking at what we'll have to say. It's it's just not your day. Um but I thought Bristol actually they they were their own worst enemy, no doubt. Yes, in this game, they really were. But they can't say they they didn't go down fighting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. And they certainly they gave it the old college try, as they say. Um let's
Quarter Final Predictions And Quick Takes
SPEAKER_02move on. Quarter final predictions, Rory.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh yeah, so Bath Northampton on Friday. Um, well, I'm sorry, David, I am gonna have to predict a Bath win on this occasion. Um, I think it'll be an entertaining one. I think it could be a really high scoring affair, but I'm thinking it's gonna be something like 35-25 to Bath.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, before I before I bought a ticket, I thought Northampton Saints were gonna, you know, do another job on them like they did earlier in the season at Prem. Now I bought a ticket, I can't help but agree. I think Bath will uh will just go out of their way to ruin my evening and um just you know stick it in. I can't help but feel it's something to do with us, Rory. Um But I do think it'll be a good game. I think it'll be close, but I do think Bath uh they've just got this they've got this bit between their teeth this season, and I think Champions Cup means something to them this year, and they want to prove a point. So yeah, I think I think we see that. Uh come through for a win for Bath. Uh next quarter final, Glasgow against Toulon. Yeah, this is a one to call both both run closer than they would have liked to have been in the round of 16 game.
SPEAKER_00It's this is a tricky one to call. I'm gonna just edge it to Glasgow. Um, but this one could go either way. I think this is this will end up being something it's be a tight affair. I think it's something like 1915, 2217, something like that. Yes, I don't see it being too high scoring. No, but I'm back in Glasgow to go through the semi-finals.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree. And then the next quarterfinal, which is the easiest quarter final in history to predict, Leinster versus Sail Sharks. Shellacking!
SPEAKER_00Shellacking on route. Um yeah, we've called some shellackins wrong recently, but this one I'm confident on. This is gonna be Leinster 52, Sail 12.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I can't see it. Yeah, I can't disagree. It just feels like a this is weird.
SPEAKER_00You're a Sale fan, go for the jolly, do not expect a result.
SPEAKER_02No, it just feels weird that this that's a quarter final, it just doesn't feel right. Uh and similarly, this next game doesn't feel right that it's a quarter final. This should be a final. Bordeaux against Toulouse. Now, this is a game I'm not gonna miss.
SPEAKER_00This is a game.
SPEAKER_02Um I don't know. Because Bordeaux the home side, Toulouse in just red hot form, but you know, Bordeaux also 60 points and oh what a what a what a feast, Rory.
SPEAKER_00What a feast. I'm gonna I'm on the strength, on the basis of home advantage alone, I'm gonna give it to Bordeaux. That's the that but that is the only thing I can I can base it on. And you know, I suppose if you were being you could you could argue that Toulouse have been in average form in this competition, obviously you've lost a couple of games. So on that basis alone, I'm gonna edge it to Bordeaux, but I mean it could be this could be the game of the year.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'd I think it is gonna be up there, and I I've just got this weird feeling that this is where DuPont just kind of crowns his return from his kind of injury woes.
SPEAKER_00I could say I could see it, but on this occasion I'm going to back Bordeaux Begler. I do love Toulouse, I'm a bit of a Toulouse fan. But no, I'm gonna wear a Toulouse shirt, but on this occasion I think it's gonna be Bordeaux 35, Toulouse 29.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I I'm backing Toulouse, but I I think it I think it will be close, and I think it's gonna be something stupid like 4543 or something like that. Oh, yes, please. Yeah, oh can't wait. That's that is your Sunday lunch served up with some extra thick gravy, Rory. Umward to talking about that game in great detail next week, um along with the others.
What A Ranker Instagram Challenge
SPEAKER_02Now, before we move on to the preview of the Women's Six Nations game, Rory, I thought I'd break up the rugby chat with a little bit of a lighthearted game. Now, listeners of the past will probably remember my failed attempt at a previous game called Name Pending, and that sadly didn't catch on and never really stuck. So I've uh I've invented, taken inspirations from other places, but uh another game that I'm calling What a Ranker. So Rory, what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you 40 seconds, okay? Your job is to list clubs, players uh soon to be announced kind of uh subject area to you in a specific order. In a in a rank, okay? You have 40 seconds to do it, and you need to do it in an ascending order. So from lowest to highest. Okay? Okay. Your job is to get it in the right order, and you get as many points as you would do up to a point. The second you get it wrong, that's you you lose the points. But your job is to try and list things in ascending order of their rank. Okay? Okay. And you get 40 seconds to do it. Okay, fine. Let's give it a go. And I've given Rory zero heads up around this. He's got an absolute thing.
SPEAKER_00No, this is not I'm I'm hearing about this as at the same time you are, Lesnar.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I'll give you five seconds from telling you the topic, and then you just have to really guess as best you can. In ascending order.
SPEAKER_00So top ten in ascending order from ten to one. Yes, top ten.
SPEAKER_02Uh, and if this goes on beyond this week, it may become about players, it may become about something else. But this week, Rory, I want you to list Prem Rugby clubs from lowest to highest on their Instagram follow account.
SPEAKER_00Oh, oh god, okay, right, I'll give that a crack. Go. Okay. I'll start with Sail Sharks ten.
SPEAKER_01Keep guessing. I'm not gonna tell you the answers till uh you've done your 40 seconds, of which you're Sale Sharks 10.
SPEAKER_00I'll give I'll go Sail, Saracens, Newcastle, Leicester, Northampton, uh, Bath, Quinns. No, Bath, Gloucester. No, sorry. Exeter, Leicester, Northampton, Bath, Gloucester, Quinns.
SPEAKER_02Your time is well and truly up, Rory, and Okay, you've made a right mess of that. Okay, what was the order? Okay, the order is uh in tenth place, Newcastle Red Bulls with 76,000 followers.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I thought they well, I would have gone to Newcastle, but I just assumed with the with the money they'd have shot up with some stuff.
SPEAKER_02I that's why I went for this topic because I thought maybe I might have lured you in with the Red Bull bounce, and it worked clearly. Uh but yeah, they're on 76,000, languishing long behind the sale sharks in ninth with 115,000.
SPEAKER_00That's a big difference. Okay, well, I I was right that sale were down the end.
SPEAKER_02Then then Gloucester with 122,000.
SPEAKER_00Uh, we're quite low down. There is a social that we're really we we're really hard, but maybe it's not Instagram. It's definitely not. Maybe it's Twitter or Facebook. I can't remember.
SPEAKER_02Now the Bristol Bears and Extra Chiefs were very close to both on 163,000. Oh, I didn't even remember Bristol. Yeah, you didn't. Uh so I've gone into the Manochi and the Bristol Bears are next with 1,600. No, 163,932, a mere 17 less than Chiefs on 163,951. Then it jumps up to Leicester Tigers with 195,000. Then Bath with 199,000, Saracens with 200,000, Northampton Saints with 211,000, then Harlequins with 308,000 Instagram followers. Those Deloitte contractors sure come with followers, Rory. PR firms all over the shop, isn't it? Uh so yeah, that's that that's Waterranka, Rory, and I have a feeling that might be uh falling into the same Been as name pending, but we'll give it a try. We'll give it a go.
SPEAKER_00I mean socials is more your speed than mine, David. So you've uh you've not played it exactly into my hands.
SPEAKER_02I've got another idea for next week. I've got another idea for next week. Okay, it'll be player-based and uh hopefully give you a bit more of a chance, a bit more of an open open selection pool, perhaps. Um, but yeah, that was what a ranker and what a ranker I feel.
Women’s Six Nations Preview And Red Roses
SPEAKER_02Um so obviously, Rory. We've had a long period of time talking about the Men's Six Nations competition and we've gone through the doldrums as England fans, but thankfully the red roses are here to lift our national spirits and restore national pride in the sport we love in the women's six nations. So it's just worthwhile that we just give it a little preview.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, I think we're a big fan of the women's six nations, it was extremely entertaining last year.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic last year, and this year we're just as excited. And I I think the question, quite simply, Rory, is what do we expect of this year's tournament? I know there is kind of high expectations for the Red Roses to go and repeat past success, but we have to acknowledge the fact that there has been some churn to the Red Roses squad. There's been some injuries to the likes of Tatiana Heard, and you know, a few players who are kind of celebrating pregnancies and kind of we're gonna see some new faces, some new names. And I think what we saw in the World Cup is some of the other nations involved in the Six Nations have been turning a couple of corners, uh, been getting better, and I think the competitiveness of this competition may be getting a bit closer. So, what what are your expectations and thoughts and feelings about this year's iteration of the women's six nations?
SPEAKER_00Well, the long show is I still expect the Red Roses to to go ahead and win this year's competition with despite the churn, despite the new faces, it's it's a much younger feel to the to the squad, uh some debutants there. Um, but uh you know, they're still the strongest squad there, they're still the the strongest coaching team, the likes of Emmy Scarrot coming in to coach the team as well. Be interesting to see some more uh female coaches being involved in um in the line. I know that's a big um big push. Sarah Hunt is now the defence coach as well. Um so uh the Red Rose would be an interesting outfit. They'd be interested to see how they kind of adapt their style with the new players in there, but ultimately it's expecting to come out on top. But that being said, I'm not discounting the French and I'm not discounting the Irish this year, both of whom I think have got very strong claims. I expect Scotland to be very competitive in a lot of these games. Um, they've got some really excellent players, more players playing in the uh the women's prem uh than ever before as well. Um, and I think Wales will be closer, and I think Italy will be closer as well. Italy, Italy have got one of the stronger playing uh player pools in the competition. Um Wales, I think, have got a more settled coaching team, they've had more time under Sean Lynn, they've had more opportunity to set their standards, um, more players playing in the Prem, particularly in the in Gloucester. Um so whilst I I don't expect there to be lots of shocks, I I do expect some very competitive matches. Um I think it's probably still a bit of a best of the rest. I still expect the Red Roses to, if not comfortably, relatively comfortably win this year's tournament. Yeah. But don't entirely discount the French and don't entirely discount the Irish.
SPEAKER_02No, I I think the Irish are the ones to watch for me in terms of so obviously that so they they've got the the harsh draw of having that first game against the Red Roses at the Allianz, which from all accounts I'm hearing strong ticket sales, which is really good to hear. It's getting close to a sellout. Yeah, which is fantastic. Uh but I I have a feeling so two, three years ago, I was really uninspired by the Irish women's side. I felt like it they they weren't in any way, shape, or form kind of looking like any sort of threat to anyone. But I think in the last 18 months or so, you can see what they're doing, they've built quite a young core, and there's a number of really good young players coming through. I think this especially their back line is really quite exciting. So I I have a feeling that they could they probably probably won't beat England, but I think they'll push them and test them, which is probably what they're what they'll need in round one. And I think Ireland outside shots at kind of second place, they could surprise France.
SPEAKER_00Up front, they've still got the likes of Ju Gang, away for Aaron King, the new captain, 22-year-old captain. Yeah, you know, they're they're a bit of an unknown entity at the moment, but I wouldn't throw sort of throw up some surprises in this tournament, particularly against France.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I'd like to see England push on from the star that won the World Cup and sort of you know absolutely keep the set piece dominance, the forward dominance, the carrying dominance. Can they evolve a bit further than that? Can they start really jouaying? Yeah, because they've got they've got the talent there to do it. Um it'd be interesting to see what team they pit.
SPEAKER_02That's yeah, I think that's what's that's what's well that's what's really gonna be who's the air apparent to Abby Dow, who obviously's hung up her boots. Um, and obviously in Six Nations of the Past, like uh for any fantasy rapper players out there, you always do two things, which was pick Ellie Kildun and pick Abby Dow. Um obviously Kildun's still a pretty solid pick, but so do they stick with like Maloney McDonald from last season, uh, who kind of filled in and looked really impressive and really powerful, or do they go with kind of one of the younger names, the likes of Millie David or Mia Venna, who have kind of really shone in PWR? Mia Venna's been tearing up trades for Glost Harbor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like score and try and try to try and all done, exactly. So it'd be it's an interesting kind of challenge uh for kind of the coaching team to do they roll the dice and try and find the next generation, or do they just tweak and go with what they've kind of had as the background backup for a little while?
SPEAKER_00Um that's part of four years to build to the next World Cup.
SPEAKER_02So and they have picked a few young players who they they may look to start blooding sooner rather than later. So I think there there are some interesting angles from a Red Rose's perspective, which will be worth keeping an eye on, I think, personally. Um and I think you're right, I think Scotland uh always they're always an interesting prospect in these in the Women's Six Stations. They they can be quite hot and cold. Like one week they'll look like well, stopped world beaters, but they'll look like a really highly polished, highly organised team, and then the next week they can kind of fall apart a bit. I think we saw that last year where they played England, looked really, really solid, really pushed them for 60 minutes, and then the week later they played Wales and fell apart. Um consistency is often the key with women's rugby, so it'll be interesting to see how they fare. And I think you're quite right, Sean Lynn, a bit more time with Welsh women. It's just a good competition, and it's a it's good fun to watch. The quality of rugby is really good, and yeah, get behind it. Get behind it, and there will be a Rux Mallsover Balls Fantasy Women's Rugby League coming out very, very soon, so keep an eye on the socials for that. With that, Rory, are there any other rugby related conversations you wish to hold? No? You won't rugby down. Just excited for the next one. Well, the next one will be coming in just a week's time, but for now, Lesnar, it's time for Rory's final thoughts.
SPEAKER_00Courtney Laws is our friend. He hates Northampton.
SPEAKER_02No, no, I'm not allowing that one, Rory. Try again. No, that's that's my thoughts. We've been rocks mulls and overwolves, and Rory's maybe grumpy again.
SPEAKER_01We'll be back again
Final Thoughts And How To Support
SPEAKER_01next week. If you enjoyed listening to this week's podcast, make sure to like, subscribe, follow, leave a comment, send us a text, whatever you want to do, and uh we'll be back again next week with some more rugby conversation and maybe a bit more what of ranker, because that went down well.
SPEAKER_02Uh, but yeah, ta
