S2 Ep 22 - France Flex, Italy Ignite & England Efficient

A night in Marseille told a bigger story: France didn’t just beat Ireland, they showed how to turn slow phases into strike ball against an elite defence. We walk through the blueprint — tall, mobile back-row hybrids, ruthless ruck speed, and a 10–15 axis where Jalibert and Ramos dictate choice after choice. When a pack offers three or four live options every touch, the defence tires in the body and the mind. That’s how 36-14 happens — and why it might keep happening.

Across a sodden Rome, Italy out-thought and out-fought Scotland. Ferrari anchored a scrum that shoved Scotland off their own ball, Zambonin raided lineouts for fun, and Lamaro’s intensity set the tone. With Garbisi and Fusco kicking to conditions, Italy earned territory and protected a lead. Scotland’s selection gambles in the back three backfired, points were turned down for broken lineouts, and star centres couldn’t find a crack. Credit the Azzurri defence more than the weather — structure and steel won 18-15.

At Twickenham, England’s 48-7 over Wales was clinical rather than thrilling. Ford’s game management — corners, contestables, and calm — set an unflashy but effective template. Ben Earl carried hard, Tommy Freeman bent the gainline at 13, and Guy Pepper quietly announced himself as a long-term six. Wales struggled with discipline and composure, though Rees-Zammit handled spiral bombs with poise. We also pick a Team of the Week heavy on French and Italian forwards, spotlight Wales U20s as a genuine bright spark, and look ahead: can England manage Murrayfield’s fire, will Ireland’s response in Dublin be enough, and how many can France score in Cardiff?

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Transcript

Banter, Baby News & Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Rux and Hobs. We're back with some more rugby nonsense on the fans' favourite rugby podcast brought to you by the fans' favourite rugby podcast hosts. Yes, it's me. Again, it's Dave, back as ever, joined by the great Rory. Rory, introduce yourself. Hello, yes, I'm Rory. Hello, hello, listeners. The great Rory. The great Rory. I give you a big building. I am Rory Magnifico. There we go. I'm just delighted to be here. Fantastic. Where else would you rather be? Nowhere. Exactly. Exactly. Well, first of all, I I guess let's start with you, Rory. How are you? Yeah, I'm gonna let you go to me first. I've got loads to say. Um no rugby commit at the weekend playing wise. Obviously, break for uh some fairly major games going on in the international arena. I'm sure we might touch on them. I spent most of last week in France in Cannes, where did any listener come and join you? Uh not listeners, a few uh a few locals um and a few Irish people who worked in Irish pubs in Cannes. Fantastic. Because I assimilate. You really absorbed the local culture. Yeah, 100%. Luginnus, please. Sivu play. Very good. Uh uh very nice time over in Cannes, obviously, but just for work, so not um not a holiday, which would be just as well because I have to say the weather in the south of France did not stand up to the hopes and dreams of Raw. Damn it down. Oh, so it's your fault, and you brought it home with you, and which is why we've got that now, I'm guessing. Yes, I'm afraid. I'm afraid I'm I you know you are 100% fallible for our poor, poor weather. I d I brought the weather with me. I'm sorry. God damn it, Rory. But you know, I'm glad you had a nice time, enjoyed uh a few the Guinness's uh interview. Thanks ever so much. This is nice. Should we uh dive into it or did you have any uh any news yourself, David? Well, well, I do have a little bit of news. So obviously the the baby came along, so that's news. Le Bebet. Le Bebet and it not Louis BLBR, the actual Le Bebet. Uh yeah, he's turned up. I'm going to respect his rights to not be past it all over the internet at the grand old age of six days old and kind of portray his name and face all over internet, which is why I've not put anything out there per se. But uh yes, very much enjoy it. I've been uh regaling him with tales of the 2003 England World Cup final, he fell asleep. I've been talking to him about the dramatic uh bloodgate scandal of Harlequins, he fell asleep, spoke to him about Saracens and their salary cap scandal, he fell asleep. Uh played a bit a little bit of the Rux Bulls and Oval Bulls podcast, he fell asleep. Um I've got something that might keep him awake, David. Uh have you talked to him about the Essex University first team scrum in circa 2011? I haven't quite. That was that's a rip-roaring tale. It is a rip-roaring tale. I'm saving the Derby Day 2012 forwards by the University of Essex front row. Uh men of the match performance for uh really desperate times. Uh but yes, yes, uh very much. I envy him hearing that for the first time. Oh, I know, I know. It's there's some things of life you really pinch yourself and kind of you look back on that, oh where was I when DMJ and Big Raw were tearing up trees at the brilliant Wivenhoe Fields, I can't remember what they're called now. Um something like that. Something like that. So yeah. I'll tell you where we were, David, we were at the cullface. We were at the cullface, and uh we will dine out on that for days. Uh yeah. Uh so yeah, obviously operating slightly in sleep deprivation zone, but that has not got in the way of me watching a lot of rugby. And you know, why why let something like that get in the way of uh of one of my other loves in life? Uh that being the rugby. And that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna talk Six Nations because that kicked off this weekend, Rory. I don't know if you realised. Yes. Yeah, I know. It's exciting stuff. Uh and we're not gonna talk Prem Rugby Cup. I I I'm not expecting anyone to be sighing at that sound. We'll do a little bit on the under-20s, we might touch on the yay fixture, we'll do some predictions, we might look at our fantasy rugby stuff, we may do a team of the week. We'll see how we go. But the meat and veg of this podcast, people, is gonna be those three fixtures this weekend from the Six Nations. What do you say, Rory? Do we just get straight into it headfast in the deep end? Let's dive in. Let's dive in, don't we? We're gonna dive in. We're gonna dive in straight away, and we're gonna start off uh with the Thursday night kickoff, France versus Ireland, and I will say I am very glad that my son was born just in time for me to walk through the front door of my house and turn on the telly with 30 minutes before kickoff. It's like he knew his first gift to me. It was fantastic. Uh what did you make of the curtain raiser of this year's Six Nations competition? Well, as you can see, David, I have donned Le Bleu jersey today because I'm in love with a French fullback. Tom Aramos is my new man crush. Wow, I am besotted, he's so good as an occasion. So I I was in France before this game, so I was watching this in an Irish pub in Cannes, obviously full of uh full of the locals. Um, right, the French do night games well. Yeah. Latmos was superb. I think they just put on an occasion so well. Okay. Are you talking just the pub you went to in Cannes or are you just talking in general the fixture? I think the way the game came across on the tele, just the the way they sort of put the atmosphere together as the teams came out onto the pitch. I just thought it was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like uh I like that they changed the light to green when it was Ireland's anthem. I I love La Marseillaise. I think it's just I think it's probably the best anthem in the world. Yeah. French rugby games at night just hit different, and I'm fine with it being on a Thursday as well. That absolutely is fine by me. I thought that brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No qualms for me being on a Thursday. I perfectly understand. There is the other thing going on at the same time of the Winter Olympics. They want to arrange it so people can enjoy all those things. People like people like a toboggan. That's and fair enough. People like a toboggan. Uh and people like watching French rugby at night. Rory attests to it. Uh, what about the display on the pitch? We're not talking about the display in the stands, Rory. We're not talking about the lighting display, we're talking about the display on the pitch. Did that do the event justice? Well, or did half did half the teams cut that up. Yeah, if you're of a French persuasion or even a neutral persuasion, yes. Because oh my god, France were good. I mean, like really good. Just that blend of like physicality and artistry that sort of they do so well when they play when they're playing at their best. Um, we'll we'll go into Ireland a bit more detail. Ireland, let's not pull any punches, Ireland were pretty poor on the day. But you'd have been hard pressed to have been good against a France team in that kind of mood. They were phenomenal, I thought. They were they were. And I before the game started, and when when we saw the squads announced, it's like there's parts we thinking, like, what what are they going to miss when they're dropping the lights of Gregory Aldreet or Gail Fiku? And I bit in my head thought, are they gonna lose a little bit in the power game? Are they gonna lose a bit in the carrying game? Um, no, they're not. Some of the players really, really stood up and kind of took the mantle on that. Um I think specifically for me, if we're gonna go diving straight into someone who I think deserves a little bit of a shout out. I know you've already given Thomas Ramos a bit of a you know bit of a shout out for being a new man crush, but one player who just continues to impress me in Francia is Mikel Guillard. Well, I mean we called him out last week in the kickoff, and he delivered in spade. So you know, played he only played an hour of that game, but what an impact. Um, I think he carried more than anyone else, but it's the manner of his carries, yeah. You know, he he fully accelerates into contact, like he uses every kilogram available to him. Yeah, just like his impact on the Irish defensive line was phenomenal, and he obviously got an assist for uh for Olivon's try, which is a lovely little so it's I mean starts with Jalibert chipping and chasing, he doesn't quite regather it, gathers it, but he tips it back, and he goes to uh to gross, I think. Yeah, gross pops it out to Guyard, who just accelerates, like and he's he leaves the the Irish bat line for dust, basically, and then tips it. He's got the choice then of going wide to SSOGB or tipping it inside to Olivon. I think either of them would have scored the try, but Olivon bubbles in in the corner with Doris sort of clutching at thin air. Um his his impact on that game was I think more than even you and I expected of him when we were when we were talking him up last week. He was just incredible in a in a in a pack that generally performed well. I mean, I thought the whole back row, yeah, I thought Kroos was just physical and nuggety and nuisance. Jagou, um, who I was surprised to see start because I I assumed Olivon would start at seven and and they'd uh start me off in the in the row. I thought Zhigou was uh was just great across the whole game. So rangey, yeah, yeah, absolutely everywhere. And then Geolange is just a classy number, it's just absolute class, just Gallange. So I have do we are France onto something here? Because we've talked about like South Africa with their hybrid players, and are France looking at something here that is kind of being unlooked at where obviously Mikhail Guillard and they played Charles Olivon in the second row, these are both players that are able to operate at test level at number eight. Is that their way of basically packing their back five of the pack with just absolute devastating ball carriers? Is is this is this an a different twinge to the hybrid player, or is it just lucky that they've got these sorts of players at their disposal? I mean I think a bit of both. So because France have always favoured tall back rubbers, you don't actually get a lot of sub-six foot back rubbers at the international level in France. You know, if you if you think back to any of their greats, you know, uh Dusatoires, the Piquemoles, you know, they're generally big guys, tall, yeah. They they they you know that is just the style of player that France liked because they don't they don't really play with an open side and a blind side as like we would think of it in uh in the UK. They play left and right flankers, yeah. So for them, there's no great distinction between the two um the two positions. What that means is you have a plethora of back rowers who are as tall as most decent locks. I mean, Guillard and Olivon are both six foot five plus. Easily. They're good, they're good lock sizes and they're strong boys, but because they're so mobile, they're so impactful in the pitch. And I think all all whispers about the potential fallibility of the French scrum were um were in vain because we s we speculated that they might well go to Aldeguery as an out and out scrummage prop, and it you know, it proved it proved more than enough for the for the Irish Scrum. He had one moment in out in open pasture as well. I noticed he had a little bit of a moment where he had a ball in hand, which was like, whoa, yeah, big moment for him. I don't think I've ever seen him with a ball in hand before. No. Um but so yeah, I think I think it's it's a bit of they're lucky that they have these kind of players who could easily step into that position. But I do I do wonder whether they are considering specifically how to counter South Africa, much like England are doing. Yeah. Having someone like Miafu on the bench is an interesting move by them because when he came on, I don't and I don't think it was Miafu's best game he's he'll ever play in a France shirt. I don't think he was, you know, he wasn't breaking down doors, but he was off loading a hell of a lot. Um, I wonder if they're they're trying to work out how they can build a squad of forwards specifically to counter South Africa, um, you know, as basically everyone is at this point. Let's be frank. That's that's that's what everyone's um uh goal is at the moment, you know, to bring on Miafi and Aradu, who I'm familiar with. Nushi I was less familiar with, but didn't look out of place when he was on the pitch either. Uh he's he's a very combative back thrower. Um quite yeah, I've uh he's he's one of those players that's really well liked within France, but hasn't really been given much of a shot in the the France shirt. So I think he he was quite well uh it was a it was a a well-liked pick uh for the squad from the French French fans. Yeah, um yeah, and you know I I think he he absolutely performed on the day. Um but you know, accepting the fact that Ireland didn't really turn up, let's if we're being frank about it. Yeah, um but the French pack on Thursday to me was scary. And I was I was chatting to chatting to my old man about this. He's a big he's a Francophile and a you know an old rugby on rugby coach at at good level. We're talking about it, is it it's it's their ability to turn slow ball into fastball surpasses anyone else because they obviously they they have a kicking game. We know they kick they kick a lot, yeah. Um I think probably second to England this week. But actually, when they want to turn slow ball into fastball with ball in hand, their ability to pick from three or four options of how to play it around the ruck. So you'll often see them, um, they'll do quick pick and goes, they'll go one man, but they the way Jagou's one I noticed do this at one point. The ball was placed by the player on facing the left-hand touchline. Jagu picks off over the top and from the right hand side, picks it and at an angle that goes outwards away from the ruck, and he does it really, really quickly. Basically, uh almost as soon as the ruck was formed, he's picked and gone. He didn't give them the Irish defence any opportunity to set, and he's also marginally spread the defence a bit further. It's a really small thing, but they'll do things like that quite often, or they'll do a quick two-man pick and go in a more conventional sense, or Dupont will slightly bounce, draw someone in, and pass the ball, and all these little things that because they use so many different options of how to play slow ball, they create impact in the contact continuously. So the Irish defence was constantly going backwards, even when they'd had slowed the ball up on some occasions, which they weren't able to do a lot. They ran hit the breakdown so effectively, completely nullified um Ireland for large parts of the game. I think I saw Doris got a couple of turnovers, but Van der Fleer was largely anonymous. Yeah, yeah, completely agree. Type Burn was largely anonymous. We know what jackal threat he is. You know, uh their ability to uh manage the breakdown and then speed the ball up, and everyone seems to understand implicitly what it is the other player is about to do, so they hit breakdown so quickly, and then suddenly the ball's quick and it's gone, and then all of a sudden you've got the ball in DuPont's hands, Jalibert's hands, Ramos's hands. You know, you've got Mofana and Deporter, who I mean, we thought Gorges might get the shout this week. Yeah, um, but Mofana and Deportaire, the Bordeaux centres, were phenomenal. Um, you know, Irish fans, I'll say I'll say in advance, I agree there should have been some replays on some of those tries, but you can't take anything away from how good Marfana and Deporter were. Very bigger than I thought he was, he was tall. Yeah, he's a big guy. Um, yeah, but that's what I think that's what really impressed me the most about France. For all of the they do such amazing things with when they're playing expansively and the balls because and we know they can do that, right? There's there's no secret that France have a maze in handling players. But for me, what was continuously impressive in this game was against a defence as well drilled as Ireland typically is, and as physical as Ireland's typically is, and as dangerous as Ireland typically would be at the at the breakdown, France constantly generated quick ball, and Ireland could just couldn't lay a glove on them. Um, and that is a frightening prospect to think that if this France team has worked the formula that means that even set defences can't repel them, it is very difficult to look past them winning virtually every a game against virtually every team they'll come up against. I mean, you have got to be it's you're not even just like you know, an average attack, a defence only has to worry about one attacker and they can stop that. An okay attack, you have to worry about two options, maybe a tip option or a pull flat at the back. And most good defenses can cover that pretty well. With France, you have got to worry about three or four options because even if you manage to hit the first, their offloading ability amongst the fours is so good, and they're always creating different options on the offload, they're rolling it and just popping it up, or you know, they're popping it out, the contact, they're popping it up off the floor. I I honestly don't know how you defend against that pack. And I think one of the things that's never really spoken about is how mentally fatiguing it is for a team to defend a team like that because you only are you knackered physically, but you are constantly trying to figure it out, and yeah, when it's like that, you just can't predict it and you can't figure it out, and you like you just start you just run out of ideas. And I think that is where I felt with Ireland they got to, and that's why the likes of Van der Fleer was mostly anonymous, because you get stuck in this land of indecision of do I or don't I go for it? Uh I think I think that's where the entire Ireland Ireland team ended up. Generally about the Irish performance, is what what are the talking points? What what are the big things for you that stood out and kind of uh any positives or is it all really kind of back to the drawing board? It's it's all just posing more questions, really. Um I think I think we they have to see the reality now that Prendergast is not the option at 10 at this time, just physically not up for it. I mean Jalabert's try was uh is case in point. Yeah, um, he just got ghosted on the inside so easily when you know I'm not saying it's easy to defend Jalabert when you've got DuPont taking the ball off the base of the scrum. Like I realise that's not a simple thing to do, but you had numbers on, and you know, he's he's completely got it wrong. Um he I think he was at fault or uh he's at fault for um Le Bebe's first try where he volleys it, yeah, which it looks cool to volley it, and you know he's volleyed it straight down the touch. You know, it it's a cool volley, but the reality is what he's done is rather than take a sensible option and reset, he's booted the ball down. Deporters recovered it and they've gone the other end of the field. Yeah, um, they lost the aerial battle. I mean, we know this isn't a traditional strength of France, they picked a team specifically to be good at it, but you know, Atasopi was very good in the air, Ramos was good in the air, Jalobert was good in the air, but Ireland really didn't lay much of a glove on them. And you know, when you're picking the likes of Tommy O'Brien and Stockdale and Osborne, who are all big lads, to not not get an upper hand in the air there, again all very anonymous performances. Um really, yeah, really anonymous. Um, it's it's it would be hard to come up with really any obvious positives um for Ireland off the back of this. I mean, you know, Predigas had a nice moment when he put Timony in with a nice little delayed pass. Yeah, but we know he can do that. It's not, and I think I still think Crowley can do that, but he's he was so dominated. Um and you know, obviously it's tough to be a 10 in a pack that's getting pummeled the way that the Irish pack was, and that is you know, that is not on him that the pack wasn't going forward, but you know, he he's he didn't have any kind of impact really with the ball until at least like an hour into the game. Um I thought Crowley made a bit of a difference when he came on, uh, even then, there was a bit short-lived, you know, they could they scored two tries in about five minutes, and there was a bit of a renaissance there in the middle of that second half, but France never looked that troubled. Yeah, I I it it felt like it was just the fact that France knew they had that in the bag and Ireland were trying to regather a bit of pride. I don't know. Uh where where does where do Ireland turn now? Because uh I we're not we're not gonna talk about it, obviously. Uh but the the England A team did a number on the Ireland A team. Yeah and and we we've kind of prothes in the past about the decline in kind of Irish rugby and they've maybe mistakes they've made not having that pipeline. Are we now seeing the exact thing we've kind of been predicting? Because you know, we are a we're very good at this, Rory, on this podcast at predicting things. We're a zeitgeisty pod, and you know, if anything, we're ahead of the zeitgeist. And we we were talking about this a while back. Um, I think the chickens are coming home to roost a little bit on this one. Um but there there were some positives in terms of I thought Clarkson actually did okay at the scrum, held up a couple of times. It wasn't not in and not an easy place to be, and they you know, ultimately they were dominated at scrum time, but I thought he held it up a couple of times enough to show that he probably could stand up at this level given given time and probably given a more support on the loose head side, where it was a bit less positive if we're honest. Um, I think Crowley's put his hands up to take on the mantle. I mean, the difficulty is how much do you keep chopping and changing every week trying to find a winning formula? Yeah. But I think Crowley, they've got to give him the keys to the castle at this point. I would, if I was them, you know, you've got Italy coming to town this week. We'll talk about Italy's performance a bit later on, but they are gonna be coming buoyed. I would I'd make some changes that were all about creating the most physical impact on. The pitch. I would be looking seriously at uh Adogo. I would be looking at uh Postlethwaite in the centres because McCloskey was disappointed. I expected more from McCloskey on this one, to be honest. Um, I would be thinking about Postlethwaite potentially. Um look, the re the reality is some of it's gonna have to come from emotional energy, which is not something you don't associate Irish teams with not having the emotional energy in a game, but it didn't feel like they did on this occasion. No, I think we're um we're seeing a squad of players that just aren't used to being in this position because it's because they've been quite a dominant force for some time and have been able to be that team like France are there, where you can arm wrestle your way through even if you're not playing well. I think they're not playing well now and they don't seem to have the answers at all. And maybe it's that emotional energy that they've they they just they haven't had to harness before, and they don't know they just they don't have that muscle memory to look back on. No, no, and let look if if we if if you look down through it, like I don't think Leinster are the same team they have been. I mean obviously they're still they they did well in the Champions Cup, I think they're still second in the URC. It's not like the arse has fallen out of Leinster, but there's there's a bit of magic, a bit of fear factor has gone there. You know, they struggled against Bayonne, Quinn's got a bonus point try in Dublin, you know. They they don't feel like a Leinster team that you sort of expect. You know, we've talked about you know Munster are not a particularly good side at the moment. I think Ulster are having a bit of a resurgence, but you know, they're not they're not absolutely you know tearing up trees, but there's they're having a massive resurrection, they are having a resurgence. It feels like that lack of future planning is potentially gonna come out of it it may just be a a sort of a blip and it's a bit of a stop gap whilst they bring some players up to the level. Um, but my gut feel is they're gonna try and rely on some of these older players again. I think they'll bring Aki back in as soon as they can. I think it sounds like Furlong's gonna come back in this weekend, which he's a great player, he's one of the all-time greats. But you know, Ultra obviously played in the last year or two, really. Um, I think they'll probably bring Conan back to start on the on the on the back row, maybe, or maybe Baird if he's fit. Yeah. So they'll they'll just revert to type and see if that's that's my gut feel is what they'll do. That's the truth. And and look, you know, chances are they'll win this weekend against against Italy and Dublin. But there's there's there's understandable concerns about this Irish squad at the moment from the Irish fans, and you know, we've talked about it for long enough to I think we've sort of seen this come in. Yeah, and I think you know, it's one of the things where the decline sort of happens slowly, then it happens all at once. You know, I think we're just starting to see the pace of decline increase a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Let's see, let's see where uh where Ireland go next. I think the only other thing on this game is what did you make of the Dupont Jalibear partnership? Did it look like something that's got legs to it? Obviously, with those two individuals, the the ceiling's very high. As a partnership, is that ceiling just as high? Or did you see things that would be like you can st you can see why Gaultier didn't go with that straightaway? Well, we talked last week, we thought, you know, my my feeling was if the 910-15 access access t like you know meshes and plays well, France would be pretty unstoppable. I think 1015 absolutely did that. I think Jeanne Bear and Ramos were phenomenal, yeah, absolutely phenoms. You know, I thought they were both brilliant, both as part of executing the game plan and individual minute, you know, moments of brilliance. You know, Ramos's volley, like sliced volley to the Bobet, yeah, yeah, is was just outrageous. Um, I think DePont probably had a more muted game than people would expect from him. Um, still had some good moments, you know. The little chip ahead before that, before the Ramos volley, um, you know, the dart off the scrum to put Janaber on in for his try. I think he's probably still not back to where we expect him to be in the international arena post-injury, but it he was by no means bad. I mean, I would say it was a seven out of ten performance from DuPont, we just expect him to be eleven out of ten every week, yeah. Uh and the seven out of ten DuPont's still a DuPont I won on the pitch. Yeah, 100%, 100%. And actually, it's okay sometimes for the magic to come from Janibert or Ralos. Yeah, yeah. You know, in the past, you know, Enter Mac would have just sat back in his armchair and let DuPont play the game. Janabert probably demands a bit more air in the room and and a bit more of the um license to be the star man. I don't think that's a bad thing, actually. You know, they'll they'll they will come to a balance, and I suspect DuPont will be doing more DuPont things as the tournament goes on, and maybe things will rebalance slightly. But yeah, I certainly saw enough in this game to think this is definitely worth pursuing with, unless you're not you're any other team, in which case please don't do it anymore. Yeah. Oh dear. Well, it's it's a it's a strong start from France. The game itself ended 36-14, which uh, if we were to hark back to last week, where was that in your predictions, Rory? Is that uh were you pretty spot on, do you reckon? Pretty close. So uh yeah, last week I predicted 32-17 in this game. That's not bad. That's not bad at all. Uh it's pretty pretty much give yourself a pat on the back, I'd say. Uh not a bad, not a bad shout at all. Uh moving on from this French demolition and Irish disappointment. Uh, we go into the first kick fixture of the Saturday, which was Italy versus Scotland. Uh now, first of all yet more innovation. The Six Nations first underwater match. Yeah, I I think we we saw why they don't generally play rugby in monsoon season, um, because it was torrential and like biblical levels of rain, which doesn't make playing rugby the easiest. Um but you know, both Italy and Scotland tried their best to try and put on a game. Uh handling obviously not the easiest, and a lot of handling errors, understandably. But I think for this game itself, I I think you just dive straight into how good was that Italy performance considering the conditions. Well, I mean, I think I think it was fascinating to watch what happens when you put two international teams into like third team regional environment. Yeah. And actually, it's it turns out third teams across the country aren't that bad. It just it literally just happens to anyone who has to play in that kind of uh the great leveler. Yeah, it is the great leveller. Um, it was fascinating to watch. I mean, low on quality as a as an overall game, but sort of absorbing in its own way, just because you I couldn't really take my eyes off wondering whether a player was going to drown. Um you know, I'd never heard players running through puddles through through the telly it's just weird. It's always good when you see someone kick the ball and then the ball's rolling and then it stops dead. Defying physics, yeah, absolutely stops dead. Um, I mean it's Italy uh Italy reaped the rewards of fast start because they scored two tries before the rain came and scored two really, really good tries. Yeah um and Scotland architects their own downfall in the sense of they just didn't turn up in the first 15 minutes, and actually, had the weather not come in, maybe this is a different game, and by the end of it, Scotland win the arm wrestle. But Italy got out the blocks fast, and you know, off their first attack, having already pinched Scotland ball in their own 22. I will go into some of Zamboni's intervention on this uh in a bit, but off their kind of first attack, they um they offer box win two penalties, I think. Pitched on the they in the first attack in Scotland, um, and then they play it away, and Brex puts a lovely kick in behind because and uh you know I don't say this as any expert on back three play, but even I could tell that Tom Jordan, Jamie Doby, and Carl State got that 100% wrong. I can't necessarily pick who got it wrong. I'm assuming it's Tom Jordan. Who'd have thought a back three made up of two of the players who aren't playing in a natural position would get their positioning wrong? Who'd have thought it? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, so Bricks Bricks with a little sort of grubber chip behind into the space and liner, really nice finish, just gasses through and and takes the ball well and dives in the corner. Um and then uh six, seven minutes later, they win another penalty, go to the liner, go to a line out, box kick, Lewis Liner um retains the ball off the really good take as well. He's sort of leading right back over himself to to collect it, ends up flat on his back, and they play off to left, and Lamoro, the the captain and back rower, puts a pass over the top that Finn Russell himself would have been proud of. Lovely loop in pass just to put Menancello, who it's I think it's easy to forget how quick Menancello is sometimes because he he has played a bit of wing in the past, but obviously not predominantly in inside centre. Gas is down the left wing, like no one lays a glove on him. He's an athlete, he is a pure athlete, yeah. 100%, just a phenomenal athlete, and then all of a sudden, you know, Italy are 12-nil up after you know 15 minutes, and they've already dismantled the Scottish line out in their own 22 twice, three times at this point. So Scotland have already blown two guilt edge chances in the red zone. And you and Ashman had a bit of a horror show at the line out, I'd say. Well, Pack in general. He did. I mean, you know, you the hooker gets the blame here, and I I'm I have some sympathy because I I think it was I think it was the whole moving part of it. They were they were poor, but also got a credit, Zamboni in particular, reading it so well and stealing him. I think he stole three on his own. Yeah, he absolutely dismantled them. Um I mean, the whole Italy pack went. Should we talk about Ferrari for a minute? I'd I would happily talk about the Italian pack man for man, really. Yeah, so well let's let's do that. Let's do that. Front row, front row. All right, Fischetti perfect in the scrum, yeah, against Zonder Faguson, who would have been a lot of people's pick to start the Lions um around the park everywhere, you know, hitting breakdowns, making tackles, yeah, carrying when he could. You know, his footwork at the game line is so good for a front run. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's he's so mobile. Um, I thought it was one of his best performances I've seen of him this season. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's it's it's one of those performances that made this time last year as a Saints fan get excited because I'd found out we'd signed him because that's what he's got his locker. Yeah, 100%, 100%. Uh Nicotera, 94% lineup accuracy in that in those conditions. In those conditions, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, phenomenal. Again, everywhere around the park, really physical in defence. Uh, Ferrari, I mean, I've seen Scottish Scrums struggle. I haven't seen a Scottish Scrum with Pierre Schumann and Xander Ferguson starting get giveaway a penalty whilst getting pushed off their own ball. Yeah. Ever. I mean, an absolute demolition. I was so glad he was given player of the match because at the the work of the front row around the pitch was really, really impressive, but their work dismantling the set piece, and particularly the scrum, was unbelievable. Because once they'd once they'd removed that as a weapon, you know, so much of Scotland's attacking play was was muted because they had no set piece to go to. Um going into the second row, I thought Canoni and Zamboni were both brilliant. I thought Cannoni um he's he's a really abrasive ball carrier in the tight in the typed um spaces, you know, he just gets like all good locks should he just gets that bit of go forward you need to make life a bit easier. Um you know he's probably outshone by his brother being an eight. And you know, number eights just get the highlight reels more than locks. A bit flashier. They are a bit flashier, but he's just such a solid and abrasive and dependable lock, sort of player that a team like Italy absolutely needs, just pure nuts and bolts. Um, and then Zamboni on the other side are just I mean, we've been impressed with him all season in the Prem. Um I don't think I'd seen him dismantle a lineup like that at Prem level. To do it at international level is some achievement. Scotland pack is full of players that will be used to playing with each other, so it's not like he was you know picking out a weakness there. That that was a pack that is on the same page. Yeah, I mean you've got Scott Cummins and Grant Gilchrist, uh both of whom I think have been in Lions squads. You've got Jack Dempsey, who uh we've you've got the whole Glasgow back row, Glasgow are flying at the moment, but Fagus and Darge and Dempsey, you know, is their whole back row, and none of them really got into the game as soon as apart from maybe Dempsey to the game. I'd say Demp Dempsey had Dempsey had a good goodish game considering Dempsey had a goodish game. He got well taken try. Yes, but um you know that they they look into it, and for Zam, you know, to dismantle that lineup is really impressive. Lamarot, I mean, I I love him. I I just love him. He's he is a captain you would walk through fire for, yeah, just heart on sleeve, you know, he is like the beating heart of this Italian team. He he's he seems to relish every aspect of the game, just the physicality of it. He's he's so combative as well, and he's had to shoulder a lot of responsibility as um as the captain, and often having to just pull you know pull the team forward just through his sheer force of will. I just thought he was brilliant once again. I mean, the I say the the assist for Menancello's tribe was one thing. His his tackling is violent. He he is such an underrated back row player at this at the international level. Like he's never spoken about in like the oh best best back rowers in the world conversation. But just watch him play. He he's in that conversation, he should be in that conversation for sure. He's got the skills, he's got the he's got the technical skills, he's got the physicality, his tackling is right up there with the likes of Underhill, uh, in terms of technique and kind of ferocity in the hit. Uh his breakdown work is brilliant, and we saw he's got a little bit of jouet in him as well with the passing. So, like full package, you can see why he's been named captain of that team from quite a young age as well. Like he is yeah, you can see why they've built around him. You would just want to you you would want to do anything you could to to help him win because he's just that that kind of player.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Yeah.

Scotland’s Misfires, Choices And Missed Points

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Uh Zuliani, I mean we spoke about it a little bit last week. Zuliani was phenomenal. I mean, I know he had to go off at one point with a with a fortunate knock after a uh to try to take him out, wasn't it? It wasn't Dash, was it Turner? Yeah um just a nuisance at the breakdown, just everywhere. And you know, I think he was involved in the holding Scotland up for the mall to finish up the game. Yeah, he was he was just incredible, I thought. Great engine on him, just a nuggety, uh nuggety open side that they haven't. I don't think they've really had one like that since Bergamasco, you know, just someone who is a nuisance and it's it's just strong and he's got the link play, he's got the skills, you know. They probably haven't had a player like that in their back row since since Bergamasco. And the fact that I'm I I would put him in that kind of sphere is testament to how highly I I rate the way he played. And then the uh the Cannoni brother again at number eight. Um is Nicotera is the is he the eight? Lorenzo. Lorenzo Nicotera's the hooker's surname. Yeah, you're right, you're totally right. But my my ability with first names is is well uh documented. You can predict you can predict a good game, but you can't remember players' names. It's a burden you've got to bear. No, we've all we've all got holes in our armour. No, Lorenzo can only uh uh eight. I mean, again, really impactful in the carry. He's just dynamic. He's not he's not the biggest number eight in the world, but he's he reminds me of someone like uh Jamie Heaslip, something like that. Just good skills, good toe, and just impactful and clever running lines. He's he just seems to be in the right places, yeah. Um yeah, I look to a man, the whole pack, just incredible, incredible. And you know, the fact that they had the confidence to see that game out and the ability to see that game out shows where this how this team has evolved in those conditions that they were just confident because you saw right at the end Scotland played most phases of the phases of the match, I mean 20 plus phases, yeah, um, and took you know, got quite far up the field, really. Yeah, I was worried they were gonna steal it. They just managed their off sideline and they just waited for the opportunity when someone got the carriage slightly wrong and they held him up. Yeah, you know, I I was absolutely impressed by the whole Italian team, but in the performance, I think Pusco as well pretty deserves uh uh praise at nine because they're missing Pascarello and Varney um are big, big losses for that team, and actually in other years would have been terminal for their chances. I thought he was great, kicked so well. Garbisi, I thought, was was absolutely on it in this game as well, kicked incredibly well. Yeah, they managed the game really well. Yeah, he did. You know, he had one of those days where his head was firmly, firmly attached to his shoulders, yeah, which is good. Yeah, because when he does when he does, he's he's oh top class 10. Yeah, yeah. He just mentally doesn't always have it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it it's also I I I think generally just it's the Italian defence for me. Like, yeah, and I think it's what we s we we've been seeing in these recent years of these Italian sizes. Maybe they don't necessarily always have that gold dust, they don't necessarily have the game breakers. Defensively, they have just been so resolute, and I think this game, in those conditions, is the difference between them and Scotland. Because Scotland, with all their big name players, your two pilottos, your Hugh Joneses, your Finn Russell's, they could not halve a route through that Italian defence. Albeit I know the conditions were bad, but I I I still I credit that more to the Italian defence than I do to the conditions. No, I do, I do. I think, well, there's a few things I think with Scotland that need to be addressed. Firstly, um it's it when it came out, it felt like a brave selection in the in the back line to to go to um Karl Stane, Jamie Dobie, and and Tom Jordan. Ultimately, it did not work out, and they were they were probably at fault for both tries in in one way or another, positionally, and allowed it to get both their tries ultimately made the difference. Um, how many penalties, scoring opportunities in those conditions did they pass up to kick to the corner when their line out was getting dismantled? Yeah, yeah. You know, they probably they you know, with it with all the difference that was in that game, they could definitely have won it if they'd just taken the points and just kept and managed the conditions better. And then I think for me, yeah, the star players just did not turn up. I thought Finn Russell was bang average again. I thought Huey Pilotto in the centres was they were ineffective, ineffective. Yeah, I mean Tukotti had a couple of moments. I thought Hugh Jones was virtually anonymous. You know, when you look at the impact, you know, when Menancello made that break in those conditions and he made sort of 60 metres up the field, you look at that and go, right? That is everything that the Scotland Centers aren't doing at the moment, they're not having game changing moments, they're not impacting this game, yeah. Um, as I say, Dempsey scored a nice try, which probably came off one of the very few poor defensive reads that Italy made.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah.

England vs Wales: Control Without Jeopardy

Ford’s Gameplan, Earl’s Edge, Pepper Emerges

Wales’ Discipline Collapse And Next Steps

Team Of The Week Selections

Wales U20s Hope And England U20s Edge

Round Two Predictions Across The Card

Scrum Ad Break Rant & Closing

SPEAKER_00 42:02

George Horn scored a nice try, again, a poor defensive read by the Garbisi brothers, uh, who overread a dummy and left the space for him to dive in the corner. Um but there's there's really no positives, I think, that Scotland can take from this game. Um for this golden generation again to start off their Six Nations campaign with a loss to Italy. Yeah. You know, you know, that's not to denigrate Italy, right? But if you're if you're claiming to have your golden generation, you can't beat Italy in the Six Nations. I'm sorry, you some something's gone amiss. But hey, at least uh Gregor Townsend's got himself a job at the Red Bulls. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, they may rethink that consultancy. Yeah, perhaps, perhaps. Um yeah, there's there's really not a lot of good good to take out of this game from a Scotland perspective. Uh a lot to work on. There may well be a response, but ultimately for me it's a tale of two things dreadful weather and Italian defence. And it ended with a game at 1815 to Italy. Uh where did that stack up in your predictions, Rory? I predicted that game at Italy 19, Scotland 15. Could do better than Rory. Um That's pretty good. It's not bad, is it? It's not bad. It's not bad to pick out uh yeah, being one point off what was uh by the bookmaker's standards uh an upset. Although, let's face it, Italy were the better team. Moving on. Rory. England versus Wales, the final game of the round, and you know, lots to talk about, I think, here. Uh positive for some, less positive for maybe some of our listeners who happen to live or breathe rugby the other side of the the seven. Um let's start with England. They looked pretty good, didn't they? They Did I mean I think my headline for this game is I'm surprised how little I enjoyed this match given the result? Is it because it all was it was almost inevitable? And it's it's a bit like how it how exciting is it when you go watch a team go put a hundred points on another team that's clearly not as good as them. It's not that good to watch. It it isn't that good to watch, and ultimately the result look, I think we all saw, I mean, spoiler alert, my prediction was pretty close on this one as well. I saw a result like this come in. What I didn't see come in was just the absolute abject lack of fight from white this game. I thought they'd be manful, but they'd get outclassed and overpowered. Ultimately, they just didn't really turn up. Um, I you know, actually, I thought England were were good. They were comfortable. I don't think they were that good. They were comfortable. Yeah, I thought, you know, I watched this, I watched the game back and they were better than I remember the first time. But I still thought they left a lot of points out there, and their discipline wasn't that good. I mean, they're two yellow cards themselves. Um some of the skills let them down. I mean, Tommy Freeman bad with a bad parks behind Roebuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, little little bits like that that you know against really good sides could really put pay to your chances if you don't take those kind of opportunities when they come along. You know, Marcus Smith and Ben Spencer both I didn't think the bench had nearly as good an impact as it it usually does. Um, you know, Henry Pollock get the penalty try, but let's be honest, he butchered a try and up score an opportunity. I mean, that's maybe a lesson of where international rugby is different to club rugby, get the ball down, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just poor body positioning, that's all. Yeah. Um, but it was so comfortable. I mean, it was really I felt like it was really reflecting the atmosphere. I don't I I unless it was the sound of the crowd was not being broadcast properly, but it felt like the atmosphere was dead in the second half. Well, it might be just felt like it was poor weather again, poor weather again, which doesn't necessarily make for great spectacle from the stands. I don't know that it's the it was the poor weather that was the problem. I think it was just the lack of jeopardy in the game and the lack of it in some ways it felt like watching a bit of a training run. Yeah, yeah. Because it felt like sort of nominal opposition but without being like really committed opposition, and it that sounds harsh, and I don't like to be the guy criticising pro players and saying that they didn't care or don't try or none of which I think is true, but the Welsh performance. We took we talked last week that how do we how do we think the Welsh would be able to manage emotionally with everything that's going on in the game? I think in this game what we saw was mentally they would just weren't there, like gifting penalties. I mean, the the early one where um I can't remember if it was Daft Jenkins or Adam Beard, they win a line out in England's 22 and for no good reason they block him off in the in the offside of the mall, you which you don't need to do, you just don't need to do it. You know, there's so many other ways to set up that line out without doing that. You know, Dewey Lake not tapping the ball on the five-meter line when they've got an opportunity. It's you know, gifting penalties under pressure, you know, Nikki Smith getting himself sent off after an accumulation of penalties because he's hit a mall too early. It's just it's just poor. It's really poor. It would be poor at a club level. It was really poor at this level, and they got punished for it. Um and I don't really take any pleasure out, I didn't really take a lot of pleasure out of this game because without the without the kind of the jeopardy and the bite that you sort of want from these games, I don't, you know, I don't really I didn't really feel like um I didn't really feel anything towards this game. Do you know what I mean? It's in and in the nicest possible way, and no disrespect to kind of Italy in the noughties, but it was a bit like when England used to play Italy in the noughties, where it was just a thought I had. Do you know what it felt? It really felt like Italy Sunday, Sunday game in the Six Nations when it was Burgamasco at nine. Yeah, that's exactly what it felt, you know, when you'd get like tickets on the school trip to go and watch England Italy on the Sunday, yeah, and it was like 50 points to seven, and you're like, you know, yeah, it's love it day out. Great, a few Mexican waves. Yeah, I've seen us win, but it's there was nothing, you know, there was nothing really in it. And I'm I don't know. I'm really I feel like I need the Murrayfield game this week to to kind of get myself into the kind of the England um title charge. I need that kind of bite because this game didn't really give it to me. Now that's not to take anything away from how good England were for their tries. Um, I think I meant you know, poor pass, one poor pass aside, Tommy Freeman was excellent. Yeah um I think his best performance in centre for a few weeks actually. Um, and you could see what he could do, the game line. I mean, his post-contact meters have been talked about a fair bit already this week. Just brilliant. I really like him and Dingwall's partnership, you know. Yeah, it's strong, it's really good. I like it. I don't know if it's the long-term solution there, but it's certainly working at the moment. Um, and I I like everything about what Dingwall does in the game because it, you know, calling him a glue player feels quite hacky now. Yeah, but I think when he put Arundel in for his hat trick when Ben Thomas pulls the ball back to no one and it goes loose, and Dingwall just picks it up, takes a step, but goes, Oh, Arundel's out there, I'll give that to him to run it in. It's just it's absolutely the right decision at the right time to facilitate the right players. He doesn't he doesn't have seem to have an ego as a player, and I like I like players with ego, like I like Henry Pollock, yeah, yeah, but I also like players with an absolute lack of ego who just wants the team to to succeed. I you so I think George Ford has this. George Ford, I thought, was brilliant, he would have been my man of the match as well. Yeah, yeah, the way he managed the game with his kicking. Just you know, the pass to Arendel for his first try, superb, just flat across the front of the whole back line. His kicking was great, and then his just metronomic commitment to the game plan, just constantly going, no, we're not we're not messing about, we're not gonna do the things just because people want us to go mad because we're playing Wales, we're sticking to the game plan, we're applying the game plan, and we're gonna keep we're gonna grind them into the dust with the way that we want to play. Yeah, it was it was very England to go for the posts at the first opportunity, uh, get that penalty kick rather than go to the corner like every other team would do in world rugby. I think it's very much setting a stool like that. We're taking the competition seriously, we've got a plan, we're gonna stick to it. Yeah, I I just thought it's it's not gonna get you a load of highlight reels playing the way that George Ford does. He's not gonna do what Marcus Smith does for Quinn's. But every time I watch George Ford in an English shirt, I just feel like we're gonna win. Yeah, yeah. He just seems to have that ability to to put England in a put in a position to win. And I don't care if we win 9-3 if we win a World Cup. I want us to win a World Cup, I want us to win the Six Nations, I want us to win the Nations Championship. Yeah, and I just feel like George Ford is gonna get us there. Yeah, it's a shame he can't do that for Sale Sharks, isn't it? Um yeah, but hey, he's he's got some excellent players at his disposal for the at the England level. Uh I I also thought Ben Earl showed exactly why he for a long time was England's answer at eight. I thought he was fantastic, his his ball carrying is exactly what um got him the job all those years ago. Uh it's always tricky one, because I in the Prem, obviously we watched the Prem week in, week out. I've felt he's been really quiet and not really done any of what we saw in this game. So it's it always makes me wonder like what is it? Is it just the the England camp? Is it that that pressure to perform when you're in camp to justify you being that player selected that brings out these performances in these players who I I think for most of the most of them will probably hold their own hands up and say they've not been tearing up trees at club level, but when it comes to the England shirt, they they seem to be able to find new levels quite consistently, and Ben L's definitely one of them. It's it's test match animal, you know. It's that it's just that phrase test match. There are there is something about the international arena that makes some players grow and some players shrink, and it's where it's why the sort of fans forum debate of players they want to see picked, players they want to see an English shirt is is often irrelevant because what you're not seeing is the intangibles of which players thrive at level. It's why Owen Farrell was loved by successive coaches, yeah. You know, despite every everyone wanting someone else picked there. Test match animal. Berner grows in an England shirt, and he he is he punches above his weight, he you know, his ability to be effective in the tight in the wide channels, whether he's at eight, whether he's at seven, whether he's at twelve, his effectiveness in the tackle, his effectiveness in the jackal, you know, ignore form for Zarisons when it comes to someone like Bennell. Same for someone like Marow Atoje, not necessarily his best showing today coming on and getting on, um game within 15 seconds. Good work. But these are the type of players that you can ignore club form. You know, Eddie Jones always used to talk about this. You can ignore club form for some players. For you know, club forms are relevant when it comes to some players because their performances in the international arena are just different. Um, it's it's an intangible thing with someone like Bernell. I think similar to someone like Tom Curry, yeah, yeah. They just they find levels, yeah. They find levels, and they're not cowled by the the occasion, they embrace the occasion, and I think that's you know, it's why I think ultimately Henry Pollock will become a phenomenal test match player because people who embrace that pressure and that cauldron will, you know, assuming they've got all the skills and ability, which someone like Henry Pollock does, they will be successful in that arena because you you can't not if you could if you're able to handle the occasion itself. Um, just players like that you have to keep around. Um, I want to give it a shout as well to I thought Alex Coles was very good actually, I thought quite a good whole game, but he was overshadowed by his partner on this occasion. Oh, Oli Chesson had a fantastic game, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 45 meters carrying, yeah, yeah. Clean break from a lock. You love to see it. You love to see a lollop of a lock going down the pitch, just players dangling off their limbs. Uh it's fist fantastic. It's fantastic. He's got good toe, hasn't he, Chesham? Really? Yeah, he has got good toe. He's got good hands. Uh this is why he's been so highly rated for such a wage. And like defensively, he bangs, like he hits hard. Yeah. Uh and you know, like I you know me, I'm very effusive about Alex Coles. I think Alex Coles is on the brink of becoming a world-class lock. I think Oli Chesham's in the same category. It's just a shame that we've got him, Maruratogi. Uh like those three, there's two there's two positions. You can only put you can't put all three of them on. Although, well, you can put Coles at six, but you know. It's a shame for one of them, but it's not a shame for England, because every lock to their quality available is is and you know, if you think of the likes of the players like George Martin who aren't there at the moment, you know, there's good options around there. Well, uh I think I I think on that as well, like historically we all thought, oh well, we can get them on the pitch at six. Do we talk about Guy Pepper? I mean, is it too early to start calling him Piquot? Uh no. No, I don't think it is too early. I d uh he's something about him. I can't I can't I was reading something. Forgive me, my memory, for you know, for obvious reasons over the last week, is losing me, but he's being kind of compared to some all-time great back throwers. You can see why. You can absolutely see why, because there's there's very little uh wrong with his game. I'm starting to think I know we've been all Pollock Mania and I'm still Pollock Mania, but is Peppo also one we should be ex as excited about? Because he may not be as flashy, but his fundamentals, his his defense like so I I was calling it when it was at Newcastle. I th I thought his defensive skills at the breakdown, his tackling was incredible. Seeing him in an English shirt, like I I can't help but feel we found our six for the next ten years. I'll tell you who I'd compare him to, Richard Hill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not he's not brash or flash, you know, he's he's not gonna do what Pollock does. But you don't actually need everyone to do that. It's nice when someone like that comes along. I think having a player of that ability who just does everything well all the time, constantly, and is uh has a constant impact on the game. I think you're right. I I think he's owned up with that number six shirt for some time to come. You know, there may be other questions asked of him in the future. Um there may be other players who who can ask the question as to whether they they're the answer at six, but I don't see how anyone supplants him at the moment because the fact that he's six foot four and can do all the things that any other back rower can do. Got the engine that he has, the strength he has. Yeah, I mean he he is a sort of archetypal back rower. Yeah, and actually there's something about one day seeing Pepper and Pollock on either side of the flanks that is very exciting. Yeah, there's always something like you'll say about the French back rowers, about they're always he's he there's something French about him almost in the way he plays. Yeah, in that he's like an all-core player. Yeah, yeah, he's not he's not really a specific back rower. No, he could be good at in any any of those positions, but yeah it's I think you need you know we always talk about super strengths. It's not that he has a super strength, it's just that all of his strengths are super. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's you know there's there's no there's no weakness to his game. Um that's not one I can see at all. Yeah, I I'm I can't I'm you know stays injury free, but he is he's one to be excited about, I think. And I think 100%. I also think he's gonna keep getting better. Yeah, you can see he feels like one of those players that he's just I I have a feeling he's like what like almost a bit of a student of the game and he'll keep working on it. Um so yeah, it it bodes well. It bodes really well for England rugby and annoyingly Bath rugby, because they picked him up. Um Wales. Is there anything we really want to pick out with the Welsh performance? Because I think I think uh Reese Samit, he had one nice break, but yeah, couple of decent and he did right again under the high ball, to be fair, under the spiral bombs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, all credit due, he handled the spiral bombs really well, which well documented how hard they are to defend. Yeah, he got under those and he got them. I think he showed enough to say he should retain his shirt this week. Yeah. Um, I wouldn't advocate for changing the other 14 shirts, but if they did it, you could justify it. Yeah, yeah. Um they I mean, just second best to everything. Let's let's be real about it. Absolutely second best in every department. Um, and in most departments, not even a close second. Yeah, yeah. Um impact in defence, barely any impactful carries. Um I mean, mentally weak, tactically weak. Poor discipline. I mean, dreadful discipline, under both under pressure, which you can understand, but also under no pressure, which you can't understand. And that's ultimately if they fix the unforced ish errors, they still probably lose this game. But it's at least a bit more respectable. Well, it's at least it's not as embarrassing. Let's be let's be honest about it. Yeah, it was an embarrassing performance. Um, yeah, I mean, other than Reese Sammit, I don't think anyone really comes out with credit. Um I thought Thomas Williams was okay. Okay, but you know, let's be honest, we know the levels of Thomas Williams, and that wasn't him. No, no, yeah, yeah, that's absolutely right. Uh okay. So for both these teams, then where do England turn? Because it it sometimes it is tricky going into the second game where you've had quite an easy run out. Well, England are traditionally very slow starters to the Six Nations, yeah. In some ways, a sort of training match level test, like a warm-up, almost a warm-up match, right? Yeah, if anything might work wonders for them. They'll have found some things to fix. There are things to fix that, you know, they need to fix the discipline, they need to be more ruthless. Yeah. You know, but winning the game that comfortably with things to improve on is not a bad position to be in, and they'll need to improve to beat Scotland in Murrayfield, not just because we've got a bad record there, but because Scotland will be charged for this one. They all want to react. Well, obviously, we've been blessed again by Borthwick by him announcing the team early doors. Do you agree with the changes he makes bringing in Atoji and Cowandickey? Yes, and I think I think you have, I mean, you have to start at Toge. Yeah, he's captain, yeah, ultimately. And you know, Chesham shades it over Coles on this occasion. No shame on Coles, Chesham is just very good. Um I think Cowandicke's physicality in the early stages is gonna be really important, and I think Jamie George's calmness in the last half an hour could be a different when it's gonna be a cauldron is gonna be really important. So, yeah, I'm happy with that. I'm a bit perplexed by the Finn Smith for Marcus Smith call on the bench. I've seen there's the there's potential exposure in certain injury circumstances, aren't there? Because there's no there's basically no cover for anyone in a shirt that is higher than 10. Yeah, I mean, you know, I assume it's it would be Finn Smith to 12 Freeman to fall back or Freeman to the wing arrendle to fall back, but Harry Pollock or Ben Earl into the centres, obviously. Yeah, potentially, potentially right. So I I'm a bit perplexed by that one, but I'm broadly fine with it because I assume they've got a plan for what they're doing. I just can't necessarily see it. But yeah, so I I think the change those changes are are fine. Um and I think if England build on what they've done that this last weekend, they'll they'll have too much for Scotland. Keep your powder dry, Rory. We'll move on to predictions soon. Move on to predictions soon. Uh I'll also touch on in a slightly once we get through our team of the week, Rory. I'll touch on why Wales need not be completely devastated. Uh, but we're gonna quickly do our team of the week. Oh, before we do, just point out that game ended 48-7 to England, by the way. It was that much of a one-way traffic, didn't even need to take notice of it. I created 45-12, by the way. Just again, not good enough. Uh, team of the week, Rory. Um, what did you have? Because I'll be honest, my team of the week is made up of players from three nations and three nations alone. Yeah, same, same. Um Lou said Frischetti came very close, but I've gone with Gro. Okay, uh yeah, I'm fine. I went Fischetti. Uh no biases at all uh for his club. Uh I'll I'll just put my I'll just put it out there. I went for an entire Italian front row team of the week for me. Well, the two is Nicotera and Ferrari, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So just Gross Gross coming in for Fuschetti. Yeah, fine. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna argue about that. I think he was very good. Uh my second row, uh I know numbers may not necessarily add up, but I went Chesham and Ghillard. Yeah, I think Chesm just shades out Zamboni for me, but yeah, that I think I would go Chesham and Giard. Um Zamboni is a was really close to getting it for me, though. I thought he was excellent, but you can't argue with the carrion work of the other two. No, no. Uh yeah, I get so I I umdenard over Zambonin and Canoni, whether they I think both of them had a really good week as well. As did Coles, to be fair, and as did all of them for France. It's really quite easy. You can't really get a pick wrong here out of these three nations. Uh my six was Pepper. My six was Lamarot. Yep, that I'm fine with that. Well, so maybe I got my numbers wrong, so I've got Lamaro as my seven. Well, Lamarot was at blind, so my seven, I oh it could be Jagu, but I'm gonna go with Zuliani. I thought Lamaro and Zuliani was so good. Well, my my back row of the week was Pepper, Lamarot, and L. I know they're not in positions they would be, but that's my back row. Early's at eight for me. Early's at eight. I went Lamaro, Zuliani, L. Not gonna argue with you too much. Uh you're nine and ten, Rory. Nine, I'm gonna go with Fusco. Okay, I thought he was excellent in in tough conditions, kicked extremely well, and he was under a lot of pressure with the first two choice nines being out. Um, so Fusco just shows it for me. And at 10, I had George Ford. I think that's yeah. So it was brilliant. So I think Garbi's had a really good game, but for me, George Ford. Yeah, I do think that context probably is quite important, but I did go Dupont just because I know he said he had a 7 out of 10 performance, but I still think a 7 out of 10 DuPont still walks into most teams of the week. Uh yeah, he still picked up a couple of assists, like some of his work in the loose, like his ability to bounce out of tackles to just keep plays moving. Like no one else can do it. Uh, so I went DuPont and Ford. Uh, I think Ford was the standout 10 for me. I agree with Jalaban. Fantastic. Two wingers. Two wingers. Uh it'll have to be the beep beep. Louis BLBRA to any new listeners. Yes, yes. And Assassin's B was great. I thought Robuck was really good. Oh, it's uh can I not give it to Arundel? We've got hat trick, but it's a bit of a tap in hat trick. It's it it is so I've gone La Beep Beep and Arundel, 'cause he he did get hat trick, albeit it was probably the easiest hat trick of his career. I think I I would just shade it to Lewis Liner, you know. Okay, interesting. Interesting. Scored one and was instrumental in setting up the second and was just generally really, really solid throughout that game. You could probably make an argument that he probably played some of a better rugby overall than Arendell. So I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that. Your two centres. Melencello and Freeman. I think that one. I mean Mofana and Deporter were phenomenal. Brex a really nice touch for Lewis Liner's try. Um Dingwall, we talked about very good. But me Melencello was the standout in the in the Italy Scotland game, and Freeman was the standout. Yeah, yeah. I got the exact same. Uh and do I need to guess who your fullback is? Your man crusher? It's Tom Aramos. It has to be Tom Aramos. He's so good. His place kicking is just it's metronomic. What he does, ball in hand, the way he moves that team around, his his playmaking ability, his ability just to kind of actually break the line and make some really smart runs as well. Just oh, what a player. What a player. And that volley, uh, that's our team of the week. But I will give any Welsh that is out there a little glimmer of hope. Because we're not going to dig into the entirety of the under-26 nations, but I will talk very briefly about the England versus Wales Under-26 Nations game, because it's the only one of the games I've been able to watch so far. And I know our avid listeners are keen to know how the under-20s are going. And spot for a very, very late rally. Wales were very, very close to winning this game, deservedly. And conditions were poor, so a bit of a theme across the weekend. But their team, led by the fantastic Carwin Leggett Jones, who I think really is a player that Welsh fans should be getting excited about. Almost enough for me to start sitting here thinking, maybe you should get him into the first team because he's that good. He his game management was fantastic. And they got a number of players who are really, really ones to keep an eye out. And I think Diane Gwynn uh of Gloucester, he had one hell of a performance uh in the eight shirt for the Wells of the Twenties. It's just they they had this physicality and this uh passion that we just haven't seen from the senior side for a long, long time now. And they really really made what was a star-studded England team with the likes of Kalori in it, and McParland, um well, no, not McParland, Lucas Friday, like some players who are getting regular game time in senior men's rugby really, really kept them out of the game. And I just want to give any Welshist out there, there is light at the end of the tunnel. If that's what your under-20s are like this year, the future is coming. It's not all doom and gloom. They they sink off about their under-18s as well. Yes, yeah. So I don't know why I don't know what it is because let's face it, the system and everything in place in Wales isn't working. But the players coming through seem to be doing it in spite of the systems that they have currently in place. Uh so I'm just glad that I can give a little bit of a glimmer of hope to the listener out there because there's some genuinely exciting players coming through the Welsh system uh that I think they they should be excited about. Obviously, England still went and won it. Um because you know, that's what England under twenties do. They they find ways to win ugly uh because they are just you know, they're they are they're those guys. Um but I just wanted to give you know Wales a little bit of something to be happy about there. Oh that's good for good of you. Uh you know, I'm a I'm a giving guy, and you know, I don't I don't we've spoken about many times we don't like to see Wales in the position they are at. I seen a little glimmer of hope to give them a bit of optimism, and I took it, Rory. Well, that's good that's good of you. That's good of you, I'm sure. And I'm sure Cousin Griff will appreciate it. That's purely for you, cousin Griff. Uh now, should we I'll give you two options, Rory. Would you like to review uh your fantasy rugby performance this week? Or would you like to do some predictions for round two of the Six Nations? Let's do some predictions for round two. I don't need to go on about how I'm top of all the leagues I'm in and all that and how good I did. Joint top of the Ruxmalls overballs, I will say, joint top. It's not a soul position. Uh but yes, you've done very well. Uh so predictions-wise, let's start off with the first game of round two, Ireland versus Italy, which, if you were to ask me this maybe eight days ago, I might have been tempted to say comfortable win for one direction. But what were we thinking, Rory? The honest answer is I'd love to predict Italy to win this, but I'm expecting a response from Ireland here. Um my gut feel says that Ireland win this one not as comfortably as they have. I mean, Italy have a bad record of backing up wins, but I think they'll back up with a performance. Um I would guess 3220 to Ireland. Okay. I I can see where you're coming from. I I do think we see a response from Ireland, and obviously, Ireland at the Aviva is a very different beast to an Ireland on foreign soil, and Italy, I'm I'm not sure how I don't I someone will have to write in and let us know whether Italy have ever travelled to the Aviva and won there before. Um never won in Ireland as far as I'm aware. No, I don't think so. So it it will be one hell of a feat to achieve. But if ever an Italian side were to do it, our is as best of opportunity they're gonna get, I think, until recent times. But I am inclined to agree with you, Rory. I I see I see an island win, but I still see it being ten points in it, so maybe like a 29-19, 28-18, or something like that. Yeah, um, that's where I see this one landing. Then, hopefully, the mouth watering prospect of Murrayfield. It's always good to see Murrayfield in the Six Nations, it's a fantastic stadium. We've spoken about it many times before, uh, especially when England go there to visit, and that's what we get to see on Saturday. Where do you see this game going? I I would expect I'm still expecting a response from Scotland. I mean, I think they have to be emotionally charged. I expect they'll have to I think England will have to manage a firecracker of an atmosphere. I think they'll have to manage Scotland coming out of the blocks. If they do that, and I believe they can, I think eventually they will overcome and win this game. Um I would predict this to be Scotland 15, England 22. Okay, so you're not predicting an overly high scoring fixture. I think this will be I think it'll be absolutely physical, really, really highly competitive, and I think there will be a score in it, but I'm expecting England to come out on top. Okay. No, I agree. I think I think England come out on top here. Uh I think a lot of it's going to be down to how well the matchup is between Hugh Pilotu and Dingwall and Freeman. Uh, because obviously if they find a way to expose what would be a it's still a relatively inexperienced centre partnership, could make life a little tricky on the day, but I do think England will have the answers to that in the long run, and I do think they'll be able to come out on top. So I agree. I was thinking maybe we'll see a bit more tries, the weather pending. Uh well, just I'm just looking at it now, and I mean, fingers crossed, it looks like it's gonna be crap every day, snowing Friday, but sunny on Saturday. Well, assuming that the uh the ground sheets are on and the turf is gonna be lovely, I I reckon that we're gonna see like a 32-25 or something like that to England. Okay. Well, I'd be happy if it's that kind of score now as long as we win. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh, and then the Sunday fixture, where maybe we might see a few tries scored Wales versus France. I mean, I'm I'm so hopeful of a Welsh response, at least just in performance terms. It's it it's difficult to see where that's coming from at the moment, but let's let's hope that there's a bit of an atmosphere and the Welsh fans get on board and turn up and cheer the boys on. I ultimately this will still be a pretty comfortable victory for France, I would guess something in the region of 40 points to 15. Yeah, um well, you know, all the stories coming out. Yeah, like they're struggling to sell out the tickets for all the Welsh games. Like, I'm I'm wondering how much of a force the fans may be, because I think they may have had enough even to the point where they don't turn out for the national team, which has always been a bit of a bedrock for them. And I think France will be too good. I think that Fran we'll see a rotated France team. There's talk of them rolling out Brabraway and Gayoton, the Poe centres. Uh, but I still think they are world-class operators, and I think even a rotated France team is going to put 50 points on Wales. I think I think we're going to see at least 50, and maybe a try or two for Wales, so maybe 52-14. Uh, that's where I see it going. So get Thomas Ramos and Le Beat Beep and your fantasy teams, people. Uh, if you hadn't already, we gave we've given you all that advice last week. Anyone who didn't take our advice, because yes, Rory's Rory maybe sat at top. I'm, you know, I'm only a handful of points behind him in fourth or wherever I am. Game on. Uh, but yeah, we go again. Uh oh, I love the Six Nations. What a time, what a time to be alive and watching Rugby Rory. Um, but I think that's it, Rory. Uh is there anything else you want to touch on around the Six Nations or anything at all before we bring the podcast to a close? No, look, I think um I think this weekend, ultimately, I think all eyes are on Murrayfield. I think the other two games may not be quite as showstoppers as the other ones. I think the game in Murrayfield is absolutely one to watch, 100%, whoever you support. I agree with you, Roy, but I did have one bone to pick with you. Go on. We spoke over messaging services over the weekend and the week, and you seem to have no issue with broadcasting companies taking away the right of the watcher of the setup of scrums by putting silly little adverts alongside the picture, taking away the attention of a nation from what is the glorious part of the game, the scrum. Why do you support the deprioritization of the thing about rugby we love so much? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not put words in my mouth. I don't support it. I just I just said I was I was entirely unbothered by it. Uh one of the adverts, as I recall, happened whilst Oli Chesham was getting his boots done up. So let's not pretend we missed loads then. Um we just gotta be grown up about it. We they need to find a way to make it money, make money. Um I think they can do better, I think they can do it better. I don't think you have to do a split screen. Why do we need to find ways for a television company to make more money? That m that money isn't filtering into rugby. Well, if inflate if you if you find a way to sell advertising space during a game, you increase the value of the TV rights, so the next TV deal will be worth more. So did you watch the Super Bowl Rory? Bits off, yeah. How boring is it with all those adverts? Is that what you want rugby to turn into? Well, it can't quite turn into that because Bell is is specifically designed to get more adverts into you know advertising space available. Well, they're not going to change the way Rugby's played in order to do this, but a bit of dead air just to get one or two adverts in. I mean, look, I wouldn't do a full split screen. I'd have a something go along the bottom of the screen or a minimization thing. I don't think you need to do a full split screen of it, but by and large, I mean I don't care. I just don't like how they've picked on the scrums. It's just this this worldwide narrative of making the scrums less important, Rory. I am not here for it. I want to stand against it. Uh there's parts of the world where they're wanting to take away the scrum as options as free kicks. They're trying to depower the scrum. Now the TV companies are coming for the scrums too, Rory, and I don't like it. I I think, look, maybe I'm I'm naive here, but I think you're eventually going too far with uh they're gonna take a look at it. Maybe I've not had enough sleep. Someone might be being a new parent and it's being impossible. No, I'm not. Uh but on that note, Rory, I I think that's I I've I've I've picked my bone and I feel much better for it. Uh consider my bone picked. We're very careful of how we use those words. Uh but I am going to bring the podcast to a close once we get Rory's final thought. Or of all the whales, alay le blah. There you have it, folks. We beer rucks, bulls, and oval bulls. We hope you've enjoyed listening and you come back again next week. Make sure to like, follow, subscribe, and all those other fun things. And uh yeah, ultimately, we'll see you next week.