Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls
Welcome to Rucks Mauls & Oval Balls, the ultimate podcast for all things English rugby! Hosted by two former university teammates who shared the pitch and forged a lasting bond, this show takes you behind the scenes of the rugby world, blending insightful analysis with a shared passion for the sport. Each episode dives deep into the game, with a special focus on statistics, player performance, team dynamics, and match breakdowns. Whether you're a die-hard fan or new to the game, Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls offers expert commentary, fun debates, and insider knowledge that you won’t find anywhere else. Tune in for the perfect mix of rugby banter, in-depth analysis, and a true love for the game!
Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls
S2 Ep 07 - Caluori Counting & Harlequins Humbling
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Money, momentum, and a meteoric rise collide in a round that had everything—from a test-match brawl at Welford Road to a 65–14 shockwave in north London. We open on England’s Autumn Nations training squad and the headache it exposes: power up front and depth at fullback. With George Martin sidelined and Tom Willis choosing Bordeaux, we dig into the balance between national ambition and financial gravity, and ask whether England’s domestic-only policy still makes competitive sense as French and Japanese offers grow.
The Premiership delivered four distinct stories. Bristol’s 49–34 win at Gloucester proved that a clear identity survives injury chaos—Ravouvou and Mata were ruthless on turnover ball—while Gloucester’s patched backline and soft edges between 10-12-13 turned pressure into points. In Newcastle, Saints collected another bonus-point win, but the lesson was discipline, not flair; moments of brilliance from Fin Smith, Freeman, and Mitchell contrasted with repeated offside and a rare second yellow for Van der Mescht. Then came the weekend’s centerpiece: Leicester 22–20 Bath, a game that felt international in tempo and detail. Nicky Smith tormented the scrum, Cracknell carried relentlessly, and James O’Connor brought calm ambition; Bath’s Staddon was immense, but penalties and missed kicks told the story.
And then Saracens lit the fuse. Sale arrived competitive, then imploded under cards and the most eye-catching debut in years. Noah Caluori’s aerial dominance forced a penalty try, his lines and awareness created more, and the scoreboard ran away as Charlie Bracken injected tempo. It wasn’t just highlights; it was structure meeting opportunity. Finally, Exeter’s 38–0 over Harlequins was tactical clarity in bad weather: Varney’s box-kicks, Woodburn’s chase, and Slade’s orchestration squeezed error-prone Quins out of the game. Along the way we unpack Gloucester’s fan funding appeal, what R360 could mean for selection and depth, and where the real gaps lie for title hopefuls.
Stick around for our Teams of the Week and sharp Round 5 predictions including Saints–Saracens and Leicester–Sale. If you enjoy smart, honest rugby chat with zero fluff, tap follow, share with a mate, and leave a quick review. Which call did we get most right—or most wrong?
🎧 Thanks for tuning in to the Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls Podcast!
📲 Stay connected with us on social media for behind-the-scenes content, hot takes, and episode updates:
- Instagram: @rucksmaulsovalballs
- Twitter/X: @RMOB_Rugby
- TikTok: @rmob_rugby
- YouTube: Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls Podcast
📬 Got a question, comment, or just want to rant about your club’s form?
Email us at: RucksMaulsOvalBalls@outlook.com
Cold Opens, Lions Injuries, Scene Set
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Lux Booms and Overbooms. It's Every Lucky Fans Favorite Lucky Podcast, hosted by Every Lucky Fans, Favorite Lucky Podcast hosts. Yeah, I'm gonna stick with that. It's me, Dave, joined as ever, by Rory. And Rory, as ever, will you say hello to the listener?
SPEAKER_01Hello, hello listeners. Hello, David. How are you?
SPEAKER_02Well, I I should probably start off this podcast uh with uh uh an advanced apology to the listener because you may hear the odd sniffle, cough, my voice sounding a little bit off because I'm a little bit under the weather, and I appreciate you probably don't want to be listening to me sniff for an hour or so, so I'll try and keep it to a minimum. Uh other than that, I'm I'm splendid. Uh how are you, Rory?
SPEAKER_01Oh love. Um I'm alright. I'm alright. Um bit of a tough game at the weekend for the Lions. Uh bit light on numbers, particularly backs. Uh our uh our loose had very manfully stepped in at twelve. Um, but uh a tough uh a tough game at home against Wansted. Um but one of those wasn't much we could do. We just um we just had to make do with the players we had available. Um and uh we'll go again this week in the cup.
SPEAKER_02Well, is there any particular reason for numbers being down? Hopefully, this isn't the start of a dramatic decline in playing numbers across the board, Rory.
SPEAKER_01Uh we're numbers like total numbers, we're pretty good. We're absolutely fine for numbers. What I don't have is any backs. I am you have enough props just the five or six teams. Yeah, I've got props, I've got hookers, I've got back rows. I what I really could do with is some small fast people who can catch the people I can't catch.
SPEAKER_02Well, if you're a small fast person who lives within the uh vicinity of Rory, make yourself known to him. He will bite your arm off. Get you into the lions, because it sounds like he's pretty desperate. Uh yeah, he he's just nodded.
SPEAKER_03Uh outside of the Lions, everything else going okay, Rory? How's how's life?
SPEAKER_01I'll complain. I mean, well, I've got some complaints, but we'll save that for the for the bulk of the podcast.
Autumn Nations Squad Reactions
SPEAKER_02Okay. As we often say, let's keep our powder dry. Uh so this podcast. Episode seven, Rory. Oh, this this this season's going fast, fast, fast, fast. Uh, we're gonna cover a few bits of news. Uh England Automation Squad, the training camp's been announced, a bit a bit about Tom Willis, some rumours about R360 starting to surface, and a little story that's coming out around Gloucester that I thought maybe you might have a bit interest in. And obviously, we all do our routine roundup of for Premiership Round 4. Well, not Premiership, Prem Rugby. It's gonna take me a while to get used to that. Prem Rugby Round 4, going through each of those games in some detail. Now, Rory, let's start off with the news. Nice and easy. England Autumn Nation Squad was announced on Sunday evening. Very odd time for it to be announced, I must say. Um what did you make of the training camp squad? And obviously, let's bear in mind the training camp squad is very likely to resemble the actual squad. Uh so we can almost take it.
SPEAKER_01It's it's gonna be pretty close, isn't it? You'd imagine the full squad will pretty much be drawn just from that, barring any disasters. Uh I mean, all in all, pretty pretty happy with it. I mean, what it's exposed, we'll talk about Tom Willison and I think it's exposed that we are still lacking big ball carrying forwards. Um, I think missing George Martin, Charlie Yules to an extent, even Arthur Clark, if you if you want to put him in that mold of the big bruising locks. We look we look a bit light of carrying power up front at the moment. Um, so Chandler Cunning himself has probably got an opportunity this autumn to stake a real claim.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, all of a sudden, all of a sudden he's become quite potentially an important cog to uh the England squad, I I think just all of all of a sudden because of one.
SPEAKER_01If he wants if he wants to take advantage of it, he's now got the opportunities to really stake a claim for a spot in that back row, whether it's eight or six, there is a glaring Tom Willis-shaped hole there now. Um, which actually was a bit surprised that this didn't prompt someone like a Barbary getting called up just to offer that cruising option. Or a chick.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Callum Chick. I mean, I think Callum Chick's got that consistent workhorse, you know, just ability to keep going and going and going, and everything he does is really he's always seven out of ten in everything he does. But you know, it it he's not out of this world ball carrier, he's not you know, three men hanging off the back of your ball ball carrier, so like Tom Willis is. Ultimately, the reality is it's another Willis who's basically irreplaceable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, who'd have thought there'll be two Willises in the world who are both irreplaceable as players, and uh we can't pick either of them. Um I also took from that squad, I thought we looked particularly light um at fullback.
SPEAKER_01Fullback, yeah. Yeah, I wondered whether uh well we maybe haven't seen the end of Marcus Smith filling in there.
SPEAKER_02I think it guarantees that Marcus Smith is seen as a fullback still uh in Borthwick's eyes, because there's only other one recognised fullback in that squad.
The Tom Willis Decision And Fallout
SPEAKER_01Well, the other alternative is potentially Tommy Freeman. Um although he shelled an absolute dolly at the weekend, maybe not staking his claim to be a safe pair of hands at the back. So maybe he's not gonna quite get himself there. But yeah, I mean, you know, you could argue Arendell as well, is a you know, came through as a fullback, but yeah, you're right. Once you lose Carpenter and and obviously more importantly, Furbank, we you start to see the the wells running a little dry there. Um, which is interesting because you think there's so many good wingers, how do we not also develop a lot of good fullbacks? But um it's not an area of strength.
SPEAKER_02It does make you think, it does also make me worry that Furbanks again not in this squad uh and this injury problem that's been following him is obviously going to be going on beyond November because I imagine he would have been in the camp to some extent if he was potentially going to be able to play. So that's worrying as a as a Saints fan. Um but yeah, I thought in general the squad looks pretty strong. I think as strong as you can kind of expect with the injuries we've got, obviously Seb Atkinson not able to be selected. I would have loved to see him carry on. Yeah, Arthur Clark, another one of your Gloucester boys, I think would have been good to see him getting some more time called up, some of those big lumps. Um but I think the main talking point, obviously, you've alluded to it here, Tom Willis. The news coming out that he is destined to France. I I s I somewhat believe or somewhat guess that that announcement from Saracens has been kind of forced upon them because he's been basically asked, Are you staying with England or are you going to France? And he said, I'm going to France, therefore we're not going to select you. And to save all the questions that are getting asked, Saracens has just said, Yeah, he's off to France. Yeah, if I had to, yeah. Interestingly, he's still going to be collecting his EPS pop-up for the Romania.
SPEAKER_01Well, this is the thing, he he only got signed on to it, you know, a a couple of months ago, so he's only just received that and then took he's taken the money and run, let's be let's be frank about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's it's an interesting ploy. Um obviously I'm not privy to the the small print, but obviously it's a I'm I'm guessing this has shown that these EPS contracts are maybe 12-month rolling things because maybe I just I can't see how else that would have been able to happen unless they they really aren't very locked up contracts.
SPEAKER_01Um it does seem like I don't know enough uh contract law to tell you, but it's you know there there should be a break clause if you make yourself but I suppose he you could argue legally he's not made himself unavailable for England until the next round of EPS contracts go out. It's just England now just won't select him. Very true, very true. That's I mean that's all by the by route, that's fine print. The bigger the bigger issue is it's uh a leading England international who would have been almost guaranteed a start at eight in every major test between now and the world cup if he was fit and available, has chosen to play his trade elsewhere. Um yeah, there's obviously the this the stipulation you know the his brother obviously plays in France for Toulouse, as we all know, top 14 player of the year. You'd imagine getting serious bags out there, um, as you know, literally nominated as Toulouse's best player last year. Um, so that's something. Bordeaux Cracking Town, one of your favourites. I know, David. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Play great rugby, European champions. You know, I can see the allure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and well, he was wasn't he at Bordeaux for a year or something.
SPEAKER_01And he was at Bordeaux after um Wasps went pop.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But uh it's it's a player who's decided that the money of France is more appealing than the international stage, and the money that comes therein, you know, let's let's not be around the bush. He'd have been on a reasonable wedge at Saracens plus the EPS contract, but obviously Bordeaux have offered something that that doesn't contain. I mean, that may just be living in Bordeaux, who knows?
SPEAKER_02But I won't speculate on totals, but um maybe uh maybe it is showing the uh disparity that is probably still growing between the French French leagues and the English leagues, um, and maybe even the EPS contract top-ups not even be enough to compete. Uh certainly maybe for the very best of the best to it, and I I genuinely believe Tom Willis is one of the very, very best in his position in the world, um, when on form. So I can see why Bordeaux would probably be throwing money at him. Uh so oh yeah, I can you know I can see why they're throwing money at him, but I don't I don't I don't begrudge him. Um it's a short career. But in what feels like quite a good there's there's momentum with that England squad at the moment. It does feel a little bit exciting. I would I would be doing everything in my power if I were a professional rugby player, and don't get me wrong, there's lots of things I'd be doing very differently if I was a professional rugby player. Um but I'll be doing everything in my power to be available for that next World Cup because I think England are building with some momentum.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, look, I think you know, as England fans we we would be accused of roast hits, but but I think England are building towards having a real shot at the next World Cup amongst a lot of very good teams, you know, the the two-time running champions notwithstanding. Um, but England are are building something that feels like it could really reach a crescendo at the next World Cup, and Tom Willis has decided that that's not enough to dissuade him from going to France, and you know, it's it's a concern for England and the league, and it's gonna raise yet more questions about I mean, let's be frank, what is effectively restriction of trade by telling players where they can and can't play. There are murky legalities around that, I think, that um the RFU in particular, but several unions around the world would rather not have explored. Um I would also say with with R360, and we're going to talk a bit about uh some of the rumours around that, on top of on top of that flying around, I would be shifting quite uncomfortably as a Dio in the Prem and as Borthwick and as the upper echelons of the RFU because you know Willis was a player whose stock could not have been higher after the summer, and uh that's not been enough to keep him.
R360 Speculation And Selection Policy
SPEAKER_02No, well, yeah, let's move on to R360. Uh I think on that point, it does make you wonder with, as you say, the murkying of the waters, with R360, without with the with the pressure of the French money, uh kind of the the Japanese League money to a lesser extent. Maybe the RFU could be inclined to start thinking differently about their uh selection policy because it does it does seem a bit of a limiting factor um when the money elsewhere is going to probably keep going up and up and up, making that decision harder and harder. But on R360, I think the latest there's been a couple of things going on. Uh rumours are that Jamison Gibson Park is lined up to move over to R360, who he would be a big name signing, but I get it. He's kind of towards the latter part of his career, probably thinking this is his last chance for a big contract. Um but I think the other thing on R360 is that uh seen Eddie Jones come out defending it, which tells me that he's definitely one of the coaches that's lined up probably to coach the Tokyo team.
SPEAKER_01He is uh not averse to a payday, um, to be fair to him. Um, I mean there's a big part of me that is thoroughly sick of R360 already and wants it to go away. Uh, but it's not going, so that's just wishful thinking on my part. It's it's gonna keep rumbling on until it reaches some level of conclusion. Um JGP going, well, it would worry Farrell.
SPEAKER_02It will, and it would I I would be worried as Ireland fans because I'm not sure what the stock is like in the cupboards but uh behind Gibson Park in the scrub half department.
SPEAKER_01Well, they're not they're not as strong as James and Gibson Park because you know, other than maybe other than France, no one no one has got anyone of that calibre. Uh France have four people of that calibre, but that's just them being greedy.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, that's just that's just that's just their under-twenties.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Um yeah, I I would I I'd be concerned. I mean, Ireland have got real concerns. I mean, you've seen there's some injury concerns about their team anyway. The Hansen's out for the autumn, uh, Aki and Henshaw, I think, are both doubts, and they've got massive concerns, I think, about the age profile of that squad in general. Um, if they start seeing players slip away for big paydays with something like R360 before the World Cup, factor in the general age of that squad and how many others' heads might get turned slash just beyond the downward slide in terms of their abilities. I think I think Andy Farrell's got a real headache on his hands because for all his brilliance as a coach and for all Ireland have done in the last few years, what you can't really say is that they've evolved the age profile of that team. It's still very much the same core that it's been for a really long time. And you just over the horizon that there's at some point those players have to start diminishing. It's just that's just the laws of nature.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's the the cruel nature of time. Doesn't stop. Uh and it's a it's a problem, I think, that's been on the horizon for Ireland for some time, and I think you're quite right to say that they don't seem to have addressed that. Um is there anything else on R360, Rory, that's struck you. Just wanted to go away. Okay. Let's stop giving it any airtime then. Uh Gloucester news that I saw uh this week. Interesting one. Very keen to get your view on it. Uh apparently they're going to be asking the fans for money to help pay for the academy and some training facilities. Yeah. How do you feel about this, Rory, as a Gloucester fan, that your club is shaking the bucket?
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, uh I'm wearing my Gloucester shirt today just in uh just to just to show some support. Um yeah, concerned because the last club that did something like reaching out to the fans for money was Wasps.
SPEAKER_02And that that went well. That went well.
Gloucester’s Funding Ask And Finances
SPEAKER_01That went well. Um so it's it's specifically earmarked towards investing in the training facilities and the academies. So they're not saying we need the money just to keep the lights on or to be able to pay wages, but what it does suggest is there's nothing in the coffers that they can reinvest at the moment. They took on a new investor last year. Uh it was a local lad who made a good amount of money, I think, in hedge funds in the city, and he invested a chunk last year. Um, but he's obviously not. What's he gonna return on that investment? Well, he's not gonna get a return on the investment. I mean, he was brought in primarily, really, to help with the strategic direction of the club. You know, I guess the jury's out on how that's going. Um, and he's obviously not in a position where he's either able or prepared to fork out of his own pocket for this sort of thing, which is, you know, if you look at the likes of say Bristol or Bath are obviously a good example, uh the Red Bulls now with their plans, sale. Um they're they're all teams that when it comes to the backroom and infrastructure facilities, they have owners with deep enough pockets to pay for things that don't sit in in the wage bill and and just fork out for it. Um we don't have that, you know. We have got you know, we've got some wealthy investors by the standards of your everyday people, but they're not wealthy by the standards of say Steve Lansdowne. No, they're not they're not Dyson, are they? No. So, and you know, Gloucester is not a wealthy area, that's the long and short of it. It's it's not Bath, it's not, you know, large suades of Bristol. It's you know, it's it's we don't have a fan base of um that say a Harla Quins might have as a as an example. It's it's a different kind of um it's a different kind of makeup, which you know what I love about the club, you know, it's it's probably the only genuine working class rugby club at top level in England at this point. I I I look forward to the uh responses to that statement, Rory. They can respond all they like, but you know, Sale is a Sale is a middle-class suburb of Manchester, so and uh the Newcastle Red Bulls are in a a suburb of Newcastle, you know. I realise no northern team would like to admit that it's it's not working class, but they're not. Um but you know, it ultimately the club doesn't have deep pockets, and it's it's concerning that they don't have like because you know we we lost money last year to the tune of about half a million, which made us the club that lost the least amount of money in the league. So from the way the club's being run, it's doing some of the right things, or at least going in the right direction quicker than most.
SPEAKER_02How much of that was offset by that investment from your hedge fund guy, though?
SPEAKER_01Uh well in the grand scheme of things, not not a huge deal. Um a lot of it was up offset by um the facilities that we own, so the stadium, the training grounds, and that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02So um so a large part of the running deficit was offset by uh I don't know, I guess pretend that I know the intricacies of tax law, but I don't know if it's the same as Northampton, a lot of their issues was around depreciation and kind of that's a word that I remember being reported a lot. Yes, I remember the same boat because it's one of the few clubs that owns its facilities, that runs its own stuff at its stadium and all that sort of stuff. So it's and maybe that's one of the reasons why Northampton and Gloucester and Leicester, because I think they're the three clubs in that position, are the ones that are kind of sustainable, we hope. This news doesn't help fit that narrative.
SPEAKER_01Uh no, no, it doesn't suggest that we are sustainable. Um well, I mean, you know, you you lose half a million, you're not sustainable. That's the reality.
SPEAKER_02Very true. Glass half full, Rory. Would you not love an opportunity to invest in your own club's academy future of your club's rugby players?
SPEAKER_01There is a very good chance that I will be uh raiding the back of the sofa to see if I can invest. Um the the long and short of it is uh it's it's it's just concerning news in general, um, just about the just the general solvency of Gloucester. Um and you know, with with its you know, its location, its fan base, and you know, let's be frank, its ability to to grow as a um a commercial entity, it is just limited. You know, Red Bull's invested in Newcastle because as a as an area, as a geography and as a um a place, it's it's more commercially viable to say we get we can turn a Newcastle into something, you know, you've got links to something like Newcastle United. Yeah, Bristol's much the same thing, you know. Steve Lansdowne owns Sport Bristol. Bath has obviously just got you know it's it's a good area for that kind of investment because it's got the right kind of people in it. Quinn's similarly, Saracens to an extent, but they've got certainly got um historic ties to North London at least.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um Northampton, less so, but it's got a bit more of a catchment of the area. There's more towns around it. Leicester, similarly, you know, there's that there's a bit of a cluster of uh towns around it they can draw upon. Um and Sale have obviously got Manchester, Gloucester's it's a little bit Shanghai's off in the in the you know the west country. Um there's not loads of big towns that close. You know, you could argue Birmingham and Coventry, but you know, you're not you can't well they're not people from there are comfortable. Yeah, so it's Gloucester is always going to be limited by by those factors, and the opportunities to maximize it commercially are just limited. So that does concern me about the long-term solvency, particularly if the rest if the rest of the league starts to go, which obviously we hope, can Gloucester can you know keep the pace? That would be that's a worry for me.
Bristol 49–34 Gloucester: What Broke
SPEAKER_02Understandably, Rory. Well, it's it does feel like a particularly negative start point to go into our Prem round four roundup, knowing what the first game is that we're going to be reviewing. Yes. Yeah, so usually let's kick you while you're down. Um Gloucester versus Bristol. Uh I've I've titled this one The Battle of the Medical Bays, because I think between these two teams it's double digits the number of players uh that are unavailable. Um it really is a case of the walking wounded, and yet again, more injuries take place in this game. Yeah Rory, run me run me through uh your thoughts on this game.
SPEAKER_01Well, uh it's disastrous. It's disastrous, it's it's disastrous on so many different levels. I mean, firstly, we've lost the first four games in the league, so our league ambitions are done. You know, in an 18-week season regular season, lose the first four games, that's your league, that's your league ambitions go.
SPEAKER_02I think with the league, you can't win the league in four the first four weeks, but I think you can lose the league in the first four weeks.
SPEAKER_01We're we're out. I mean, we'd we'd have to go some to even challenge for getting back in the champions cup, but I think that's unlikely at this point. So that's that's a complete disaster. Um, and then on top of that, so on top of all the players we already have missing, Thorley gets completely knocked out in the first five minutes, um, and was replaced by uh Yesire Edwards Azure, who I'm gonna just say straight away, what a find. Yeah, what an absolute gem.
SPEAKER_02Bright bright spot for Gloucester, bright spot for Gloucester, I'd say.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um Ben Loader goes off at half time, and we have to uh replace him with um Mikey Austin, who again's a scrum off. Looked pretty decent though. Looked you know, looked alright, but he's he's a scrum arth we picked up from Hartbury over the summer to be our third choice scrum off.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And he's now you know having to come on at halftime on the wing against Revu. You know, best best one. I mean, God bless the lad for giving it as all, but you know, there's it's not a great surprise that a couple of tries came down that side of the pitch. Yeah. Um James Venter went off with a hamstring, and then um Josiah Rebels Giro went off with an ankle at the end of the game. Um, it's it's not it's you know, that's on top of you know, Tom Os was missing with an HIA. Yeah. Seb Atkinson's out for several months with a knee, Ben Redshaw's not come in yet with a fractured ankle, uh Josh Hathaway's out with uh a long-term injury. Uh Val Rapavavoruskin, I mean, he's got he's got a long-term knee problem, doesn't look like he's gonna get any better. Jamal Ford Robinson's out for a long time. See the news about Jack Singleton, yeah, a cardiac episode in training. We only just found that out in the last week. So he's out. I mean, let's be honest, he's had a cardiac episode, he's had surgery. He's he's probably gonna have to retire. Yeah, you know, he may he may find a way back, but the chances are he's gonna have to retire. Um, and oh god, who else? Who have I forgotten? Louis Ludlow. Louis Ludlow's out long term. Um Arthur Clark's broken a bone in his foot. Um it's it is disastrous. It's it's not even it's not even at the point where it's like, oh, this is a bit of a problem, but we'll just have to work out with it. No, no, this is disastrous. It's it's almost our entire start in 15, arguably, is is gone. Um it's it could not we could not be in a worse state. And I you know, I hate to catastrophize.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's not like you to be so dramatic, Rory. Um, but I do feel it's a bit warranted here because it does it does feel pretty um downward spiral, no end in sight sort of problems.
SPEAKER_01Because it doesn't they keep playing week in week. I don't see where we get a win. At the moment, I'm just hoping we get through a game without losing another player. That would be as good as a win at this point.
SPEAKER_02Um when do you play Newcastle?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I mean, to be honest, they'll be licking their lips. I don't know, is the is the honest answer. We got X to this weekend. Um Okay, interesting.
SPEAKER_02Um so all that aside, probably put yourself into the shoes of a Bristol fan who will probably be shouting at you now, saying, Hey, we've got just as many, well maybe not just as many, but we've got lots of injury problems too.
SPEAKER_01Yes, no, they they they do, and uh yes, apologies to any Bristol fans uh listening because um you obviously turn up with a lot of your own problems. Although, you know, looking at the your starting lineup, it's still a very strong starting team. Arguably your only real obvious weak well potential weakness would have been at fly half, and Worsley had a superb game, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 19 points, 100% kicking return. Uh didn't put a foot wrong. So sometimes these opportunities throw up names and players who are able to step up. Uh I guess the problem is when you have too many of them, sometimes it can be a bit too much for yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, it's he he absolutely because I remember I remember watching his debut last season and he had a he basically had a horror show. Yeah, it was one of his where it went it all went wrong. Um and you know it it it could have knocked a a lesser man for six, you know. That was it was an all it was an almost unrecoverable performance. Um, you know, not entirely his fault, it wasn't solely down to him, but it was just one of those games where it could it could not have gone worse. Um and he's absolutely come roaring back into it um in the last couple of weeks with uh uh what he's been asked to to shoulder for Bristol with obviously McGinty's injury and then Tom Jordan's suspension. Yeah. Um so you know, really, really chuff for him, actually, because it, you know, obviously a talented lad, but you know, the the bounce back from from the how his professional career started to this uh is is enormous. Um Bill Matter and Revuvu are freaks, um, and actually I think shouldn't have been allowed to play against us because it's unfair to do that against um sick men. That's true.
SPEAKER_02That is true. That yeah, the last thing you want to be doing is facing off against two very experienced, very large Fijian men who just want to hurt you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they did just want to hurt us, and they and they did hurt us.
SPEAKER_02They did hurt you quite a lot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they really did. Um, but no, look, Bristol played really well. I mean, to be honest, in attack and at the set piece, Gloucester were pretty good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The our issues were we can't our issue is we cannot defend. We've got the worst the worst stats in defence, I think, in the league, in terms of the number of tackles we've made, the number of tackles we've missed, and the the ratio between them.
SPEAKER_02Um there does seem to be an absolute gaping hole every single week in that connection between 10, 12, and 13 that every single club so far has been able to unlock with ease.
SPEAKER_01Well, Rossburn is not even as stable as a revolving door. Um it's just it's ludicrous how poor a defender he's he's turned out to be. And we've had a different centre combination pretty much every half so far this season, so yeah, um, that's not helped. Um, but you know, they scored some really good tries. I mean, Will Joseph in a uh a terrible Gloucester team so far this season has been in the last three weeks phenomenal to the point where totally bright spark. Well, I mean him and Josiah, yeah, probably the only bright spark so far. Um, and James Venter to an extent, actually. I think Venter's actually been quite good, and actually for Softborn, those those they've all performed well. Um, but Will Joseph has been the absolute pick of the litter, and um the try he scored with lovely long looping pass out to Josiah was Giroud, and then follows the pass at a great angle and recollects it's phenomenal. Um so you know, in attack, glosses really well. Bristol were good in attack, although against minimal opposition, if we're being entirely frank. Um, but they I mean lethal on transition. They are just lethal. That's their brand. It's their brand. They no one counterattacks like them on transition. It's a point I was watching, I think it was for. Or wasn't Fitzhardin's try, might have been for Revu Vu's when they break down the right hand side. Um Bill Matter Bill Matter puts him in. Yeah. His first try. Yeah. It was a spilt, it was a poor pass and a poor spilt ball that doesn't get jumped on. It doesn't get, you know, it's a poor attitude from from Freddie Thomas, actually. But within a flash, they've got Bill Matter going up against Markey Austin on the on our left wing, and you know, there's only one winner there anyway. And he does the absolutely indecent thing of uh out the back pass to Revovo, who runs him pretty much uncontested. Um he then gets his second by out jumping Marky Austin on a crossfield as well. It's just it was a really, really unfortunate matchup between those two. Um, but you know, they they are solely. I mean, in whatever team they put out, it doesn't matter who's missing, they just stick to that brand, come what may. Yeah, and you know, last season in particular, for large periods, it really it was it scuppered them at points, I think. Um, in terms of you know, I think they lost games they should have won because they were too committed to to being mental. Yeah, but in games like this, uh they're absolutely um electric.
SPEAKER_02True, and I'd kind of referring back to what we said earlier about Gibson Park and the stock in the RS scrub arth locker. Kieran Marmion's doing a good old job at Bristol, hold often playing 80 minutes because they're not really trusting their backup scrub arth behind him because I think it's like their fifth choice scrub arth.
SPEAKER_01Uh well I think it would have been Max Pepper, but he was having to play on the wing, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_02He was. So they had Oscar Lennon, who I think's on over in a short-term contract because he used to be there and was released. The same way Toby Frick is now back there because they're released. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. They've sent out the come help me signals. Um they've got Matthias Moroni, who I think also went off injured at the end of the game. Uh, so their their woes continue.
SPEAKER_01Uh their woes continue, but what they do have is a really defined playing style that is ingrained in in what is largely a consistent squad.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
Newcastle 19–36 Saints: Discipline Issues
SPEAKER_01Um so the the the strength the their strength in this crisis compared to Gloucester is their squad, although it had it was too small, we identified that, their squad is consistent and the they play that way at all levels. Yeah. So the players they've brought up from the youth sections are already au fay with that game plan. Well, whereas Gloucester only really implemented that style last year, and they brought in what was it, of 15 new sign-ins or something, and they're all having to play now. So they're just not bedded in with that style. Um identity now, completely lost. Um, but Bristol Bristol have at least got a really strong thread of what they're trying to do. So that's I think that's what's helping them slightly weather this crisis as it goes as it continues. And they keep finding ways to win. Finding ways to win, you know, if if you just keep winning games, it doesn't really matter what who what your injuries are because the the confidence will breed through the squad. Yeah. Um and it also means your injured players aren't having to be rushed back from the from the fitness today to get back in. So um, but you know, we shouldn't dwell on this game all day, even though I could. But I you know, yeah, f credit to Bristol, who are weathering their storm manfully. Um, and I just hope at some point Gloucester can do the same.
SPEAKER_02Right, okay. Yeah, okay. I understand, Rory. You wanting to move on from this topic. Um let's move on. Well, before moving on, that game ended 49-34 to Bristol. Uh, so quite a high scoring affair. Uh, so at least you got bonus points out of it, Rory. So, you know, that's something. That is something to hang our hat on. Thank you. So I'll I'll give you something. A nice positive to end our Gloucester section on for you. Uh, but moving on, Newcastle Red Bulls against Northampton Saints. Uh Northampton's trip up to Kingston Park historically has never been one that's been overly flashy from a Northampton point of view. It's always been somewhere we've really struggled to piece things together, and I I kind of feel that that theme's continued. Uh, I'm not coming away from that game feeling like the top-of-the-table team that we currently are, uh, because there's definitely a few flaws still to be ironed out.
SPEAKER_01Um well, let me uh let me ask you a question, David. When uh Butter Chamberlain touched down uh for what would have been an equaling score, I think it was about an hour into the game, wasn't it? Yeah, uh, how flappy was your bum at that point?
SPEAKER_02Uh the bum was considerably flappy because I it felt like all momentum was with Newcastle, and I think you were really starting to see the benefit of them having a full packed-out stadium because it was rocking, although albeit very annoyingly with the amount of music and DJ stuff going on constantly, which is pretty annoying. Um, and that was just from me watching on the telly, let alone anyone actually in the stadium. Uh but yeah, I I was considerably bum bum flappy uh when that happened. Uh I think it would not be too far to say that that one stupid penalty from George McGuigan lifting Ed Proce's leg a bit too high could potentially have cost the Newcastle Red Bulls their first win. Because I I could envisage them going on within that game the way that second half was going.
SPEAKER_01They were well on top at that point, weren't they? I think the introduction of uh Stefan Kutzir seemed to be making difference just having a bit of size in the back line. Um I mean Maffe, they they've got to be careful with Maffey because they're gonna run him into the ground quick because he is being asked to shoulder a lot. Yeah. Um, I think what was I think the theme for Saints actually for actually a lot of this season that I've watched them, they have maybe the worst discipline in the league. Uh what makes you say that? Well, a number of things. Uh I mean Vandamesh getting uh a second yellow card is uh I mean I've only seen that a few times. Um it's not caught it's not common. Uh but just seem to upset, I think was it was it Adam Leal was was referring? Uh uh you seem to manage you managed to upset him at every possible opportunity. Uh you managed to piss him off at scrum time, yeah. Managed to piss him off at line out. Yeah. Uh you would not get onside, uh, and you wouldn't leave the rocks alone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, on side's been a problem for us since week one. Um we just don't seem to know where the offside line is at the moment. Um, don't know why. Um I just looked at the stats. We are only the second worst defenders in the league. Um, Newcastle being the worst defenders, so probably no surprise there. Um but yeah, the Vandam the Vandameshed one. I'm was it a yellow card? I I don't want to get drawn into the first one.
SPEAKER_01Was a team bin. Yeah. He it was just that you're just giving away too many penalties. So that one was a team bin. The second one, it's harsh, but by the way it's refereed at the moment, it is probably a yellow card.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair because I think we'll probably touch on similar themes in some of the other games. Um I I think you're right. There's something there is something. Although we are winning, or you know, not losing, because we did draw against Exeter, we didn't win against Exeter, but we we have we are yet to lose a game. We haven't put in an 80-minute performance by any means. Uh we seem to be winning these games by just having moments where it clicks for like five minutes, we take our chances, and then go back to ill discipline, and not necessarily defending that well. Uh if we could cut that out, it would be a lot better as a Northampton Saints fan. I I I still have hope, but I know we've got a much sterner test coming this weekend uh up against the Saracens. Um so I really hope that things will be different. Obviously, our new favourite Italian, Eduardo Todaro, getting yet another try. Tommy Freeman. Yeah, lovely finish in the corner for him. Tommy Freeman again having, you know, yes, he may have, you know, had a one or two drops, but in general, looking very much like the lion he is, and a very important player for Northampton in terms of the city.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the the break for Mitchell's try was really good. Um, I mean his try, I mean it goes down to Finn Smith really just being very good at the line and delaying the delaying the pass. But I mean in general, he he was pretty good. Um, but yeah, sh shelling an absolute dolly up and under, you know, under no pressure whatsoever, doesn't do his uh his chance to play for the team. Yeah, his credentials were were a bit dented by that, but you know, needs must as things are with with injuries in the back three for you at the moment, I suppose. Um I it's it's it's quite difficult to actually sort of nail quite where Saints are at the moment. At times brilliant, at times dreadful.
SPEAKER_02Top of the table, that's where we are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you are top of the table, fair enough. You squeaked past a dreadful Gloucester side you drew with Exeter. Um beat Leicester. You beat Leicester very well. So I mean you're capable of brilliance, no, no, no, there's no doubt about that, and then also seemingly capable of chucking away a game where you're quite comfortable. I mean, you were three tries up, I think, before Newcastle got on the scoreboard. Yeah. Um, and you basically surrendered all momentum to the point where Newcastle probably should have been level with you, and uh, you know, as you say, had all the momentum with them to go on and win it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um it does it is that as I said, it is a recurring theme of the season so far. Uh, is to well, first two games we we get a huge lead, and at half time we don't come out of the out of the trenches. Um in this Newcastle game we get ahead comfortably, and then we just let them back in, and and it it is the discipline, it's the penalty count, it's just letting teams back in, surrendering momentum, and then not seemingly having a way to shift it back very easily. I think the only way it worked against Newcastle was because of that penalty, and then if it was Adam Leal, uh well remembered Rory, if it wasn't, it's the the referee. Um thankfully he started things started going a bit more our way after that decision because then we were able to kind of chip our way up the pitch and take a couple of more opportunities of our own. Yeah um yeah, it's it's a hard one to assess. I I'm not I'm not coming away feeling like this is another uh ten out of ten top draw performance from Northampton because it was far from it, but it was another bonus point win. Um that's four bonus four try-scoring bonus points from four games.
SPEAKER_01Uh if you if you can win playing badly, then you're on good you're on course for a good season. Yeah. At some point I think the tide will turn and and Saints will play really well. I just think at the moment you're actually not playing that well as a whole game. I think you just have you have very good purple patches within games where you're basically unplayable. Yeah. And then quite large swathes where you are just worse enemies. Basically, yeah. But if it clicks for an 80-minute performance, that team still is good enough to beat anyone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I think that's what we as Northampton Saints fans live in hope for. Uh, I'd also like to say I very much enjoyed Alex Cole's try uh to seal the game. Lovely little break from him, and kind of just to see to see a second row lolloping down the pitch, breaking tackles is always lovely to see. I think from a newcast perspective, we've mentioned Maffey, very impressive. Kurtzy looks very he he could be a difference maker. I also thought Benitez Cruz looked really busy and could well be a very useful player for them this season. I know we said last week that they may be kind of at a hiding to nothing, but I did see some glimmers of hope there.
Leicester 22–20 Bath: Test-Match Edge
SPEAKER_01No, I think I think you're right. Um, and they had a few other players who turned up, so Beakman's who came on at 12 for Max Clark. The phrase they used in in training was uh in uh commentary was he's training the house down. Um so it sounds like they just feels like they're they're the ranks are filling out a little bit. De Bruin came on at tight head, um you know Fergusley Warner obviously starting at six, had a pretty good game in defence, banged in defence. I think the issue with with Newcastle's starting lineup, at least as I saw it, was the only player capable of getting any momentum in the carry was Maffe. Yeah, you start adding in the likes of Def and Kutse, you start getting, you know, it's someone like Benitez Cruz shifting defences around the fringes and taking advantage of that. Actually, there suddenly starts to be soft shoulders and it that they could exploit. At the moment, they're just they're just running into brick walls of set defences. But you know, there's there are some some green shoots there. Um it's obviously still early days, but I saw enough in that game to say they they caused Northampton enough trouble in that game to say they will they will still pull off probably a couple of surprise results at some point.
SPEAKER_02I can I think they very nearly could have in this game, but it ended 36-19 to Northampton, a bonus point win for Northampton to uh take themselves back home to Franklin's Gardens, uh nearly getting to an end of as good as close to perfect start of the season, barring the draw against Exeter. Uh moving on, Leicester against Bath, a game that we both predicted a certain way, and humble pie, Rory, because Bath can't be beat.
SPEAKER_01And I think we did both say that we could envisage Tigers winning this. Um for me, this was game of the weekend. Umding up as nice as it is to watch the sort of 10, 12, 15 try-thrillers that we've been we have been treated to in the prep um for actually probably over the last year, really. It was nice to see a quite cagey, intense match between two very big physical sides. And when I was watching this, the the thing that kept running around my head was this is test match intensity. This, you know, that in terms of the way these two teams played in this game, it was as close to test match rugby as you get in in Primo these days, and I thoroughly enjoyed this one. Um Bath will well they'll rue Finn Russell leaving his kicking boots at home this week. Um they will they will have to go back to the drawing board on their scrum, I think, that was which really struggled. The starting lineups at least really struggled.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think Nicky Smith really had Will Stewart's number, certainly in the first half.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, and they will uh they will need to get a grip on the amount of penalties they were giving away because they they were pulling at real saints on this one.
SPEAKER_02They were pulling a saints.
SPEAKER_01They they got very much on the wrong side of the referee. Um, but I mean Tigers I thought was superb. Um I I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I wonder if James O'Connor has brought a real level of ambition to the way they're playing, because they they came to play, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It almost didn't look like a Leicester performance that we're used to because there there was if anything, Bath were the more nutritional side on the day. Leicester played with a little bit of ambition, they played with a little bit of creativity, a bit of ava voom, yeah. Um maybe that is James O'Connor is a classy player, uh, has been a classy player for 10-15 years now. He you can't you can't just turn him into a system player that quick quickly overnight. He's he's gonna have a natural inclination to play a certain way, and I think maybe we're seeing that.
SPEAKER_01Well, he's also you know, he's 35 and he's got bags of of experience at test level, playing all around the world. You know, he's got the the bravery to play when he sees it on, yeah. And it doesn't matter to him where you are on the pitch or who you're playing for, you know. Where take Billy Sell, for example, who I think's been superb this season, obviously nailed the winning kick, you know, balls like wolves, yeah, to nail that. Um he doesn't have the the clout to be able to be able to say to to a tigers pack, you know, no, we're running it. You need someone who's got someone like a James O'Connor who's got that clout to go, no, if I say we're running it, we're running it. He's got the because you're a club like Tigers, you you you you have to have a real personality to be able to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I I it's interesting because it's very much not like us to be saying all these nice complimentary things about Leicester. Um I thought they were great, but yeah, I cannot fault them in this game. Uh their pack was tremendous.
SPEAKER_01It was I loved watching Cracknell in this one.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so Cracknell's always been one of those really underrated players who does such an important role for that Leicester pack, certainly in years gone by where they have been incredibly attrition. But I think the role he played in this game was so important. It was almost Tom Tom Willis like in that he was just providing an outlet, a bit of go forward, that confrontational picking on the beast.
SPEAKER_01Even that bath team couldn't slow him down. You know, he was he was getting go forward on every carry, which is really hard to do against that bath defence, as the rest of the Leicester team found out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, no, I thought he was superb. Um, I really liked Nicky Smith in this one. He had a great game. Absolutely getting the better of um Will Stewart at scrum time, yeah. Just really confrontational, but again, very effective on the carry. You know, he's he's a much better player in the loose than I think people realise at times. He's he's a good carrier. Um, but I thought that for those for me, those two were probably the pick of the forwards, alongside you know, I said Joe Hayes, I thought obviously very good at scrum time, and Oli Chesham was everywhere as he always is. Uh but Kraken and Nicky Smith for me were the absolute pick of the bunch.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know I I completely agree. From a Bath angle, some some may point to they obviously rotated their squad a little bit, but I I would immediately counter that by saying you have Ben Spencer and Finn Russell starting 9-10. You've got Sam Underhill in the back row, uh buying and no one forced them to rotate their squad. No, no, no, no, exactly. Um, and one of their rotated players in, Ethan Stadden, I'll probably say he was their best player.
SPEAKER_01He was excellent, yeah, everywhere. Um, I say not a player I'd seen loads of before. I think we saw him a couple of times last season. Yeah, um I thought he was great. Um and actually, when you look at the you know, him, Arthur Green, Ewan Richards all being in that squad to go away to Welford Road, yeah, that is a real um sign of trust from Johan van Graan to say that we think you can perform in these really hostile environments. And uh, you know, I say all three I thought were very good when they were on the pitch, but yeah, Stadden in particular was a pick of the bunch.
SPEAKER_02He he he made three really important turnovers uh at really crucial times, and he just he was everywhere. Um just it just feels like he's another Bath player who is just too good to be sitting waiting for opportunities. Um this age-old problem I see at Bath in the back row is that they've got too many options. Um but yeah, uh and I think the other nice part about this fixture, Leicester getting the win, the the fact that this fixture was also kind of a moment for Lewis Moody. Lovely seeds where he came out half time. Uh I'm I'm also partly glad Leicester got the victory for him.
Saracens 65–14 Sale: Kaloury Arrives
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. I mean I mean Javed played for both clubs as well. He did, he did. Um, no, really nice moment, and uh nice to him getting a chair every time he was on camera. Yeah, nice seeing a lot of the old faces um in the crowd, you know. Obviously, your Martin Johnson's and uh uh uh who else I said I think Garforth I saw there, Mike Corrie I saw in the crowd. Yeah, oh yeah, a myriad of old stages.
SPEAKER_02And I think that tells you a lot about Lewis Moody and how many of his old kind of teammates would they turn up they were turned up for him, um which is really nice to see. Um but yeah, 22-20 to Leicester. We were saying last week, like or maybe the week before, it's it was hard to see where Bath would be losing a game this year. Perhaps Leicester have given the blueprint by literally just giving Barth a bloody nose, matching up to them physically, nullifying. So I still think Sante Carreras had a pretty decent game. Arendale had a decent game. Um but I think Leicester absolutely arm wrestled them out of this game. Thomas DeToy will be really ruining that pretty stupid high tackle. Yeah. Um I'm sure he'll be kicking himself because that did lose them the game. But ultimately, this this fiction is all about Leicester coming home with the win.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they were just great. They were they were I you know, I I'm I'm not afraid to say it, David. I enjoyed a Leicester Tigers performance.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'm just it's so hard for me to say such nice things about Leicester. But yes, Leicester were brilliant. Um moving on now, Rory. This next game, Saracens versus Sail. Do we just go straight to the talk the talking point?
SPEAKER_01Well, I want to say that there's there's more to talk about, but there isn't really. Um it's uh you know, it's it's just one man, it's it's the it's the talk of the town, it's it's the man all across the papers, it's Noah Calori, it's it's a phenom.
SPEAKER_02He's everywhere. He there was even an article about him on the Sky Sports News app, and there's very rarely ever any rugby union news from the Prem Rugby in Sky Sports News. So obviously it's it's something. Um so yeah, we probably should talk about Noah Calori.
SPEAKER_01Well, you can take a lot of credit for having earmarked him a very long time ago, David.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thank you very much, Rory. Uh, I will I was about to say, so anyone who's listened to this podcast or followed any of our social media channels, I have been talking about Noah Calori for some time. Pointing out, you know, how he's this generational talent with this unique skill set where he has this leap beyond anyone else. Hey, it's fine that everyone else is going to take credit for spotting that themselves now. Just saying I was saying this over a year ago. Um or two coaches been saying it for a little bit longer, to be fair. True. I uh that does bring me to probably a point I want to make, is he is very clearly uh one of these players that Connor O'Shea spoke about last year when asked about Henry Pollock, where he said through the pathway, there's three or four generational talents coming through. He was alluding to Pollock being the first one. I'm 100% confident Kalouri was the second one he was alluding to because he is on a development contract, he's in the England squad. Yeah. Uh they wouldn't be doing that if they didn't think he was at that level. Uh question remains who the third and fourth are. Uh answers on a postcard, uh Lister. Junior Capuco. I I wonder if it's age groups we've not seen yet.
SPEAKER_01Okay, interesting. As generational talents. Um generational talents. Well, I mean, look, if we were still clock called it absolutely. Um because he absolutely bullied Aaron Reed in the air. Um amongst others. O'Flaty as well, obviously, for the for the penalty try. Yeah. And it's it's weird, you know. It's I'm trying to think of any other time I've seen anything like I mean, genuinely outside of the NBA, you know, it was Air Jordan. It was it was weird. See just seeing a man literally defying gravity. I you know, I nearly started singing wicked songs. Um I thought he was phenomenal. Um, but beyond that, also his game intelligence. I mean, for Earl's try, that all comes from his break and little lovely little deaf grubber in inside. His you know, he was switching wings, he was finding space, he scored the one try off uh uh the set move off the line out with a lovely little line. Um, you know, it he will get exposed in some way by someone at some point, you know. It will be someone like uh Calavetti Revuvu running running out in full pelt, and then you'll then you'll find out where he's at in all aspects of his game. But for someone of his age to be that assured with the ball at this, you know, on your starting debut, it is freakish.
SPEAKER_02Um his confidence is gonna be sky high now.
SPEAKER_01Uh well, I mean, it's gonna be difficult to bring him back down to earth, not least because it'll be so it'll jump so far above it.
SPEAKER_02And there's so many unintended puns about his jumping there. I can't wait to just do this forever.
SPEAKER_01Um, I'm gonna make so many jumping puns for his whole career.
SPEAKER_02I know. Uh, and I I I'm also looking forward to putting a calori-based pun as the podcast title, because sale sharks were left counting the calories. Uh yeah, kind of works. Um, well, they're certainly in a calorie deficit. Um, we like that. We like that. But I do want to say I do feel like Sale were also a little bit masters of their own demise to a degree, because that their that inability to handle Kaluri obviously led to that penalty try, the yellow card that oh Flaherty got. Yeah, right half time. Yeah, half time, and then Cowandicke's 20-minute red. It's no wonder that Sale absolutely piled on the misery in that window where they were down to 13-14 players. So I like so the score line for this was 65. Up until half time, it was pretty even.
SPEAKER_01I think it was it was 22-14 at half time, but that was with the penalty try right on the stroke of half time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, Bevanrod scores first, then I think Gonzalez got his, which was a little dubious if I'm being honest. No one no one checked if that actually brushed any grass, but fine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I did wonder.
SPEAKER_01And then Rob Depreer dances through the Saracen's defence for a really nice dot done under the posts. Uh, and then for the rest of the half, it's a real arm wrestle. Choory gets his first, um, which I think was the set piece move. Um, but until the penalty try, you you couldn't have called who would have gone on to win that game because Sale were right in the battle.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then they obviously get the yellow card on half time, and then Cowandickey gets himself sent off for a high shot two minutes after half time. And so obviously they're down to 13, but eight, seven or eight minutes, and uh 14 for another 10. Yeah. And they just capitulated under the numbers pressure to the point where it was quite odd. Because you don't, I mean, you wouldn't attribute that with an Alexanderson side, I would attribute with bogger defence in the face of adversity of numbers. That would that would just be I would imagine Alex Sanderson spends about 60% of his week doing defence with 13 men, just in case it happens.
SPEAKER_02Well, he he'll be really annoyed because as a team they missed 51 tackles.
SPEAKER_01Appalling. Yeah, they were appalling in defense, but just in a it was just weird.
SPEAKER_02It was weird how bad they were. Um what did you what did you make of the Cow and Dickey red card? Because uh, like you said, they they didn't spend much time looking at Gonzalez's try to see if it touched grass. There were some angles where I wasn't 100% confident that Cowandickey's head actually made contact with Tom Willis's head.
SPEAKER_01I I remember thinking that at the time, and that may be the case. It may be that he gets very unlucky there. What I will say, and Sam Warburton actually said it a few times on comms quite a bit, he makes a rod for his own back by getting his head in the wrong side.
SPEAKER_02Oh Warburton was on the money with this because the entire game, there were so many examples of poor tackle technique on the splay.
SPEAKER_01If Carondicke gets his head on the right side, he probably makes probably makes the same level of impact on Tom Willis, maybe 90% that impact on Tom Willis, and gets the tackle in, and then he and he's got no chance of hitting him on the head, but and he's got time to achieve, you know, he's he's eighty he's got time to get lower, as the referee said. He's absolutely right on that. He's got he had plenty of time to get lower, he's definitely got time to pick which shoulder he hits with, yeah. And you know, he has got it's it is a clear line of sight. It's as a rugby player, that is the dream scenario of belting someone the size of Tom Willis. This is actually my best opportunity to belt Tom Willis and get away and make a dominant hit because almost in every other scenario you're getting belted back. This is your opportunity to do it. Guess it's technique completely wrong. So even if maybe he didn't connect with the head, I have no sympathy because it is he was the master of his own downfall with it by just tackling poorly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so yeah, I think if there is head contact, completely warranted 20 minute red card. It's just I just questioned whether the referees were diligent or as diligent as they should be on the replays.
SPEAKER_01they they seemed to rush to that decision much like the Gonzalez tried perhaps but yeah I think there's a chance I think I think there's a chance he didn't yeah yeah I think there's a chance but if he did it's if he did it's the exact level for a 20 minute red card I think that's the perfect if you're gonna have a 20 minute red card that's the the kind of level for it and to be honest I'm I think he should have got a 20 minute red card just as punishment for poor technique as a professional player.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I think that's fair I think that's fair. Uh any other angles to draw out because it's very hard to just not keep going back to Noah Calorey.
SPEAKER_01But you know he did score five I think I think the Saracens back line in general do it I thought um Charlie Bracken had a really good game at um nine yeah um his speed off the base you compare it to the week before with Van Ziel against Quinn's uh I thought he was much more threatening from the base and also created a lot more uh zip in that back line just by the pace with which he played it so you know I I'm not saying it's Van Ziel's never going to come back into that team because that's obviously not that's not not going to happen he's he's a very senior player there but Charlie Bracken showed them the possibility of an alternative and what that can that can do. So I I thought he's continuing uh what is a stellar season for the Bracken family um at the moment.
Exeter 38–0 Harlequins: Tactics And Execution
SPEAKER_02So yeah because even even though Jack Bracken only came off the bench for kind of I think he had 15 20 minutes even he managed to rack up another 60 70 meters carrying the ball it looks dangerous still so yeah the Bracken family still continuing to really flourish this season which seems to be the the the year of Saracen's young backs really shining uh we've talked we've talked we've talked about it before we don't need to keep going over it I think the only thing on me I'm aware that Saracen's next game is against Northampton next round how do we think I would be concerned if I was you because on top of anything else if Saracen's if if Saints discipline is as poor against Saracens as it has been up to this point in the season you will get battered yeah yeah and I I I wonder if they're going to stick with Calory and I d I just wonder slash worry if they go in man for man against Todaro who Todaro's had a great start to the season but there's a very clear physical difference between their styles uh we've been we were exposed by Leicester Freddie Stewart really dominating in the air when Leicester played against us I I do have some worries. So if we're doing fantasy rugby Rory Kalori got sixty eight points this week for anyone who had the Yes I had a very poor week of fantasy rugby and I really wish I'd picked him yeah well I had a very good week and I didn't pick him I just wish I did so I could have uh emboldened my grip now top of the Ruxballs Overbulls Fantasy League and in the top twenty in the world so I'm obviously doing okay. Um but yeah so this game ended 65 fourteen uh to Saracens an absolute demolition uh and as I said before Sale left with a calori deficit uh yes that is going to be the podcast title um moving on Exeter versus the Harlequins Rory the Harlequins bouncing back from their fantastic victory against Saracens last week and really doubling down on that performance with uh by by literally not doing anything. God they were crap weren't they? They were s really I don't get it. After the performance they had against Saracens I th I I I had I had a thought that maybe they would be you know competitive.
SPEAKER_01Texter to win this one but I I thought I thought X to sneak it in a tight game.
SPEAKER_02I d I at least thought Quinns would bring some I mean they were rubbish the whole way and X2 were very good before anyone you know I I know that I'm known for um uh bashing on Chiefs I thought Chiefs were excellent to to a man but particularly their back row um who I thought were phenomenal and Henry Slade um who was again just phenomenal Quinn's not one of them was good no it's hard to think of any positives like okay conditions were challenging but conditions are challenging but they're dreadful for both sides so yeah it's not an excuse yes maybe extra use to Sandy Park a bit a little bit more but it's more of a leveller than a difference maker so I'm not gonna buy that from any Quinn's fan who claims that's the reason why Harlequins were dreadful.
SPEAKER_01No in in fairness to Quinn's fans and I'm not like I'm not one to be fair to Quinn's fans um and I'm not one to um be magnanimous with them but I have not seen any of them uh make any claim other than we were shite.
SPEAKER_02Yes I they've they have been very honest in accepting that that was not a good game uh which is fair we can we can appreciate a fan base that is um honesty accepting and honest of themselves and maybe that's born out of frustration because it's been quite a long time where Harlequins have been so hot and cold and this is just the perfect example of blowing hot and cold in two weeks.
SPEAKER_01I mean it is it is a roller coaster being a Quins fan from from what I gather but this was this was as low as the lows get on the roller coaster um yeah I mean it's difficult to pick it up I mean the moments that stick out to be Marcus Smith slipping over it as he goes to kick a penalty and just scuffing it um yeah uh kick in a penalty dead just brain fade uh I mean everyone dropping balls left right and centre but you know dropping absolute dollies you know not even in bad conditions you know we've all played in bad conditions and you know we can all accept that sometimes the ball gets a bit soapy but you adapt I mean you gotta adapt to um so I would say I thought the connection or the game plan where I think Stephen Varney had a great game his box kicking was spot on and Ollie Woodburn uh who was kind of a late call up for Paul Brown Bampo who pulled out uh before the game Olli Woodburn had a an integral part with his kick chase and really putting a lot of pressure on Iskrow um yeah which really kind of was a big part of how Exter were so effective no absolutely strategically Chiefs were absolutely phenomenal and yeah you're right to call up Woodburn he was he was great against given that Iskro's big strength is his um his high ball retention I thought Woodburn more than matched him he got he got well well on top um it's it's probably the best I've seen extra play tactically for three or four years. You know the up until um yeah up until this game they've been pretty poor at adapting uh adapting to scenarios but no I thought I thought they were excellent in this world all of a sudden all of a sudden Exeter starting to look like a team turn but not necessarily right off but like you look at that back line now now they got Len Ikertow in there all players fit Joe Hodge seems to be coming into form again Feu Aboso's Feyu Roboso Henry Slade seems to be coming into some brilliant form. Harvey Skinner is looking like twice the player he was last season yeah Harvey Skinner's had a massive massive leveling up I'm gonna dampen that enthusiasm slightly because there's there's two things on that Quinns were so bad in this game and I still think that pack will get dominated by the likes of Saracens say or Bath you know Northampton even you know I think that pack is still very very fallible um the back row I think is really good uh you know Hooper Roots and Fizzelow were all great. Roots should we talk about roots for a second?
SPEAKER_02Let's talk about roots for a second bangs bangs indeed so towards the end of last season he he just decided to just hit everyone like he hated them. Yeah he's doing that again this season uh and there was there's lots of people who've been commenting saying why is he not in the England squad? So Rory why is he not in the England squad?
SPEAKER_01Well you could make a very good case for him being in there um I think that the honest answer um if you're being ruthless in your decisions about the England back row which is so competitive he is one dimensional compared to a lot of those players and if you're gonna pick if you're gonna pick one seven who bangs you're picking underhill yeah yeah yeah you know that's that's the reality um Ethan Roots his carrying game is fine you know his agility around the pitch is fine like they're both good like they they are good premium standards for both those things but at test level um you know you you need to have a bit more um and being being someone who bangs in D actually probably isn't enough at test level unless you not just but you level in d you know is it the same argument you kind of have around Callum Chick that yes you're very good at what you do yeah we we've spoken about it before like you almost need superpowers you need points of difference being very good at what you're doing isn't necessarily a point of difference. Yeah you need a super strength and you need your super strength to be better than someone else with that super strength and Roots loses that battle against Underhill in the same way that Chick would probably lose that battle against Charlena Cunningham himself. Yeah yeah um not in the sense that you know I mean Cunningham South went off injured in this one so we'll see how that goes but you know I think I think on an average across a season Chick probably has a better on average performance than Charler Cunning himself. Yes. But absolutely but Conning himself is capable is capable of more. Yeah yeah and that's and you know and at test level what you're trying to do is draw out those types of players because you can't you can't afford to have a team of seven out of tens and that win you at test level because you'll come up against someone who's got two or three players at nine or ten out of ten yeah and that's a that's leveling up and unfortunately for Roots he just he just fits in that camp of seven out of ten.
Team Of The Week Debates
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah they are quite right uh yeah there's there's not a lot more we could say around this game other than the Harlequins are awful X2 are excellent. So yeah this ended Exeter 38 Harlequins nil uh and that will not sit pretty with Harlequins fans uh so slightly new section for us Rory we're going to be doing our teams of the week so we'll we'll we've both drawn up our own teams of the week for round four we'll be posting them sending it out there on the various social medias to let us know what you think but obviously we want to let you know as the listener what we thought of our teams of the week. So Rory let's run through our front rows okay should we go position by position one at a time?
SPEAKER_01Position by position one at a time Lucead I had Nicky Smith.
SPEAKER_02Luce head I had Nicky Smith and then I I looked at the stats which is often my downfall and I looked at the stats for Ethan Berger for extra chiefs his numbers were insane for a loose head prop who was basically on his debut completely under the radar 16 carries 40 meters made 100% tackle success rate was solid in the scrum so I had to go for him as much as I think Nikki Smith was amazing.
SPEAKER_01I'm I think I think that's good I think to be fair those are those are stats worth worth mentioning it probably it probably does mean that you're maybe you're right on that basis but my basis is Nikki Smith took out the starting lions tight head oh believe me I know full well if I put a post out saying that Nicky Smith wasn't the loosehead of the week I'm getting pelters and I'm fine with that.
SPEAKER_02I'm a stats man.
SPEAKER_01Hooker tough one hooker I'm dancing between two I'm going either Dan Frost or Joseph Dweber. Interesting and I think I'm going for Dweber because Frost came off quite early I think that's fine.
SPEAKER_02I think that's I think that's a good pick. I went Jamie George just because I thought he had really good great all-round game for Saracens there wasn't too many very Jamie George performance very Jamie George performance there weren't many hookers that really put their hands up to stand out and I just thought Jamie George did everything asked of him solid at the set piece uh great around the park easy pick tight hair I'm I feel bad because I probably should pick Joe Hayes but sentimentally I'm picking the Falluby for Sogbon because they he absolutely dominated Jake Walmore at scrum time he had a number of very good carries he made some big tackles and in a difficult week I thought he continued some very good early season form. Yeah I can see I can see why you've done that and probably in an effort to make sure there's a Goster player in this team which I feel you respect for Rory. I went Joe Hayes uh it's fair it's fair I probably I accept I probably should have that's fine it's we've got completely different front rows Rory how how bizarre. It's unusual for us I have a feeling we might be the same in the second row though unless you've been watching different games to me. Who are both your second rows?
SPEAKER_01I've got Alex Coles and Zamboni.
SPEAKER_02Okay I've got Alex Coles and I know you picked Zamboni because you just wanted to say Zamboni.
SPEAKER_01I've got Marat. Do you know what I originally had a toje but uh the reason I picked Zamboni is uh he made a couple of turnovers at the weekend that were so impressive for a big lock to make I just thought do you know what for a 20 year old in his debut in the Prem to do that I'm like do you know what I just like this guy and Maratoge is always brilliant. Yeah I just I just sort of I you know I just accept that it's taken as red yeah I just thought you know what I I I think I want to put Zamboni in this one.
SPEAKER_02Zambonin uh to give him his actual name is proving to be a real turnover threat. Uh he's yeah he's been a great pickup for Exeter so I'm fine with you picking him but I just Etoji was just like just yeah classic Atoji Itoji was brilliant so I I accept that um I accept that you know he's he's a worthy worthy inclusion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah yeah yeah uh back row let's go with your six I'm so I I wanted to cheat okay a little bit and not pick people in the actual shirts they were wearing but um I'm not going to do that because I feel like I should play the game with a straight bat because originally what I wanted to do was put Ethan Roots and Fizzelau as my two flankers but Fizzelau played eight and Roots played seven. Right yeah so fair fair's fair you've got to play the game with a straight bat I reckon I at six I'm gonna go with Ethan Stadden. Agreed who I thought was yeah superb and for a you know for a young lad I yeah I thought he was phenomenal.
SPEAKER_02Yeah like I said he I I felt he was Bath's best player on the day and considering the quality of players in that Bath squad he must have had a good game to be in that bracket. So yeah Ethan Stadden solid solid pick I agree uh seven I've also gone Ethan Roots uh Ethan Roots yeah he he was huge I nearly went Ben Earl but I just thought Ben Earl like they were just running what riot in that second half so it was easy to look good. Ethan Roots was just pure hate.
SPEAKER_01Uh number eight I'm guessing you've gone fizzle out then no um no because there were two men at eight who could not be ignored uh and I had it's to for me it's still a straight shot between Tom Wells and Ollie Cracknell and I I it's it's the width of a fag paper between them for me but on the basis that they were playing the champions and he was so impressive I'm going to Ollie Cracknell I think that's fair I I went Tom Willis um but I fully respect Krakenel. I would have also respected Maffey uh to a degree yeah Maffey was brilliant as well um and I did actually want to find a way to put a Newcastle player in but ultimately I couldn't I couldn't ignore how impactful cracknell was against that bath defence. You know we know how physical that defence is it's mental.
SPEAKER_02If anything it's good that our teams are so different because it can generate discussion Rory on the socials. Absolutely it's all about discourse.
SPEAKER_01It's all about discourse absolutely uh your scrum half yeah Steve Varney for me um I I think a shout out for Charlie Bracken uh we mentioned him earlier I thought he was great but it's it's Varney for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I'm in agreement I think he was instrumental in how good X2 were uh and there's been a real fine for them um he he's probably really staked his claim for that nine shirt probably to the annoyance of Charlie Chapman who probably moved there hoping to be competing for that and Varney's definitely put his hands up to say he's the number one nine so yeah I'm in complete agreement Varney uh is definitely my nine as well ten I went Worsley I nearly went Worsley I went O'Connor okay yeah I I look I think that's fair I thought he was really really impressive and I thought it was very nice to see someone drawing some uh some real life out of what is on paper a really exciting tigers back line um and I I think I toyed I did toy with O'Connor but I couldn't ignore what worse did that game Worsley Worsley is based on the the Bristol performance is perfectly perfectly fine. Your centres I went I am Farrell and Henry Slade yeah I so I I like those picks and perhaps if I'd spent more time thinking about this team I might have landed on the same place. But however I've landed on Bernard Yancey Van Rensburg and Josiah Edwards Giraud well he must have played on the wing I thought he came on the 13.
SPEAKER_01No no he came on for uh Oli Thorley Will Joseph played 13. Will Joseph would have been a fair pick.
SPEAKER_02See this is what I mean where I didn't spend enough time planning this team. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna edit that. So I've gone Bernard Yancey Van Rensburg and Henry Slade. Excellent picks well done you thank you very much thank you very much no editing involved there at all but yeah I I think Van Rensburg had a great game for Bristol was a huge part for kind of really unraveling that Gloucester defence although probably not the hardest thing to do I I did think about Farrell uh because I do think him in that 12 shirt's really clicking and maybe a big part of why Saracens are really purring at the moment uh and Henry Slade had his best game in an extra shirt for some time I thought so all round solid picks. Your two wingers I reckon I might know one of them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah so on the left wing in the 11 shirt with a shout out to Oli Hassel Collins and Josiah Ebergerot I settled on Calavetti Revuvu. Yep and on the right wing with shout outs to Adam Radwan and Todaro both of whom I thought were great I settled on uh it could only have been Noah Callory. Yeah so I've got Calura as well I I've got Arendelle again probably I'm not 100% sold on Arundel so he got he got two assists so he had some really good moments he did actually have a very good game for set up Cam red pass try really nicely uh matched up well against Radwan I thought I thought it matched up well but I actually I do think Radwan came out on top I think you know it was tight but I actually think Radwan came on out on top on that belt even though the s the the stats in terms of assists would suggest Arundel did um I thought Radwan with certainly with the ball was excellent although admittedly he was at fault for the first try well you know it can't all be perfect for he no no no that was just me and you were fullback uh steward I thought he was brilliant yeah again so I've gone to be freeman but that might be my desire to get at least one Saints player in this team one eye he had a great game he had a great game no he did have a good game but he he did he shelled a couple that he shouldn't have um which is a brilliant but and to be honest for me this all comes down to the context of of who they were against and the Freddie Stewart was brilliant against a Bath team that kicks so well that had been russell and Santa Carreras and Ben Spencer all throwing kicks at him and he fielded it really well. So you know if you if you were looking at running stats yeah Tommy Freeman is probably the pick of the bunch this weekend but um in terms of Marshall in a the backfield I thought Freddie Stewart was 10 out of 10.
Round Five Predictions
SPEAKER_02Well you know stats are stats are everything to me Rory um so selective stats that get sex players in I I needed actually though I do have Alex Coles so I didn't have to do that but you know I just I'm just really happy to see Tommy Freeman playing um so yeah what we'll do is we'll put those out we'll give people a chance to scrutinize them heavily tell us how wrong we are uh and we will uh obviously get drawn in by your bait and we'll argue you with you in the comment section then we look forward to it I'll see I'll see you below the line. See you below the line everyone um now let's move on to our predictions for round five uh the Friday night game I have a feeling I know where you're going with this one Northampton Saints versus Saracens where do you see this one landing?
SPEAKER_01If Saints tightened up their discipline they're more than capable of winning this but based on what I've seen so far this season I'm loath to think they will and Saracens Saracens come heavy that pack I think can probably get momentum and given that Van der Mesh is a good chance he'll be suspended this week um gut feel Saracens will squeak this one by under five so I I'm gonna back Saints and it's not just because I'm a one-eyed Saints fan we are of not only because of that it's not only because of that I I think of all sides I think we are the bogey team for Saracens we're the ones that they've got the worst win weight against it wasn't that long ago that we absolutely had a great performance against them at the end of last season at Franklin's Gardens. Yeah we've got good form against Saracens I think Northampton at home at Franklin's Gardens is a it's a tough place to go for any team uh I think it's a coin flip I think it's a coin flip and absolutely could see Saints winning this but just based on based on where us you see the strengths and weaknesses of this team the fact that Saints' big weakness is their discipline and the fact that Sarris have Owen Farrell you know it he loves a team that that gives him opportunities to pin you back and that's that's ultimately where I think this this hey maybe we'll benefit by not having Vandameshed available.
SPEAKER_02But that's true that's true maybe we'll have someone who's a little bit more solid yeah okay yeah so yeah I agree it's gonna be close it is going to be close uh and it's probably not going to be a high scoring affair I think this will be a close one.
SPEAKER_01Uh exeter versus Gloucester at Sandy Park Rory Yeah um unfortunately I can't back Gloss to win this at the moment I mean to be honest I can't back us to get 23 players there. So I'm gonna say X to win this by 10.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I I can't disagree with you the way things are going at the moment Extra are very much on an upward trajectory Gloucester very much on a downward trajectory and with no end in sight. So yeah I I would agree but Harlequins versus the Red Bulls.
SPEAKER_01Had this been at Kingston Park I think I'd have backed Newcastle. Yeah but the fact is at the stoop I think Quinn's probably do win this and I suspect they could end up winning this quite well. Yeah I think we'll see a reaction I think we'll see Quinn's by 15.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I I agree I think we'll see a reaction from Quinn's I they will not be happy with that performance because Exeter they will be getting absolutely run ragged this week and sent out to make a point so I reckon 15 mid of them uh yeah if not higher.
SPEAKER_01Bath versus Bristol the now beatable Bath against the Bristol team that seems to find wins even though they haven't got enough players yeah well it's derby day so weird things can happen on a Derby day yeah um Bristol as you know we've heaped praise on them um and Bath were by their own standards poor this week but gut feel is they bounce back and they win this one by 10.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I think Bath win this one comfortably Sam Worsley great game but I just up against Finn Russell Ben Spencer I think that's gonna be a real tough ask for him to manage against especially with the players outside him being kind of there's there's there's going to be a lack of connection there I think so I I suspect we'll see a Jomo and Lawrence back in the centres for Bath as well. So yeah I think we see a comfortable Bath win. And then Leicester versus Sale.
SPEAKER_01I mean game of the weekend probably I think for this this one um I well look Sale will obviously want to bounce back Alex Sanderson will be getting into them all week there will have to be a reaction but something tells me that that Tiger side has got enough about them to to back it up and even if Sale comes snarling I think Tigers still win this one by between five and ten.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I I'm in agreement I think Leicester feels like they're on to something good at the moment Sale yes I would I'd expect to see reaction but Welford Road's a tough place to go um it's almost unlucky that Sale have got two tricky fixtures on the bouts having to go to the Stonex and then to Welford Road back to back. But yeah I can't I I I can only see a Leicester win here. So yeah those are our predictions Rory we'll see how we fare when when we get to it next week do you have any final thoughts for the Lister before we bring the podcast to a close we'll be passing the collection tin around for Gloucester um across this weekend.
SPEAKER_01Arms for the poor uh tithes for the poor and uh any spare change you have to um build Gloucester a new uh training base for the Academy that'd be really much appreciated. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Uh other causes are available. We're the Overballs hope you've enjoyed listening we'll be back again next week for lots if you've enjoyed listening make sure to subscribe like follow review whatever it is you want to do and we'll be back again next week. Ta
